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Let's explore what we may find in outer space.

How are they going to run it? In the first place, the grand universe is going to change. Some beings who are stationary may not remain stationary. We know about the orders of stationary citizens. Sons. For example, midwayers are called stationary citizens. You know, they don't count us as citizens. We don't live here long enough. But the midwayers live on Urantia a long time. But even they eventually move. Adamites are stationary citizens of Jerusem. But after a long, long, time, they, too, move. A very few are commissioned as planetary Adams. Some serve as non-reproducing assistants to planetary Adams in the era of light and life. Some finally get permission to start the Paradise journey direct from Jerusem.

There are natives of the Father's worlds. Havona has its natives. Paradise has two kinds of citizens: Those who are born there, and Adjuster-fused ascenders who lack planetary experience. Status is going to change at the end of the present universe age.

Creatures who trinitize--a creature trinitized son--and who experience spiritual bi-unification--what does that mean? Don't ask me. I merely quote the word. Their status may change at the end of the present universe age.

Listen, there are a billion Universal Censors in Havona, one on each world. They haven't had a doggone thing to do since they were created. They're there, probably, in anticipation of the needs of a future universe age.

Well, what happens out in outer space? First of all, we've got two Trinities acting and interacting. We've got the Paradise Trinity functioning in functional relationship to the First Experiential Trinity. Secondly, we've got the Supreme Being functioning as the sovereign of the grand universe and as a super all-mighty functioning in outer space.

I think the Seven Master Spirits will still be functioning. Whether they'll operate in connection with the seven superuniverses or not, I don't know. But I'm sure they'll be operative in outer space. Remember, these Master Spirits are not only Supreme, they're Ultimate expressions of Deity. There may be two or three types of Creator Sons in outer space. More about this later.

We'll be out there. And one of our jobs will be to compensate outerspacers for the fact that they can never experience evolutionary growth such we have experienced.

I believe there will still be finite reality, because there's finite reality in Havona, but evolutionary, experiential growth will no longer be attainable. Absonite growth will begin. That's a rough inventory.

What will these outerspacers be like? Listen. Can you imagine two Havona natives speculating on what superuniversers are going to be like, before Grandfanda ever got there? They know about the superuniverses, but they've never seen an imperfect being. All they've seen was born in perfection. And I don't believe a Havona native could imagine an imperfect being. He had to meet one. I don't believe that we can imagine the nature of an outer spacer.

Let's consider this whole question of Creator Sons and Creative Spirits. You might put down a couple of references. Page 235, paragraph 4 speaks of more than 700 thousand Creator Sons. Page 1299, paragraph 5 speaks of well-nigh a million Creator Sons. There's an equal number of Creative Spirits, aren't there?

Well, let's do some thinking. We know that there are exactly 700 thousand Unions of Days. One is created to function as the Trinity ambassador at the court of a Creator Son. We know that the plans of the Architects of the Master Universe provide for precisely 700 thousand local universes, because we're told that each local universe embraces 1/100 thousandth of the power charge of the superuniverse.

The exact number of inhabited worlds is a little indeterminate. But the number of local universes is not inexact. It is precise. But we've got more than 700 thousand Creator Sons. We've got well-nigh a million of them. And there's absolutely no indication that they're a fixed number.

I don't see that the Universal Father and the Eternal Son ever will stop conceiving identical thoughts, and every time they do, another Creator Son is born, and another Creative Spirit differentiates within the Infinite Spirit. So, there isn't enough room for all the Creator Sons in the seven superuniverses, is there?

And this means that when we go into outer space, there are two kinds of Creator Sons who are going into outer space: there are master Michaels, who have had the experience of functioning as creators in the present universe age, and there will be Creator Sons who will have their initial function as creators in the next universe age.

And there may be two kinds of these Creator Sons. Consider, type one: a Creator Son, now in existence, but who is destined not to be able to function as a creator in the present universe age. Type two: a Creator Son who is born in the next universe age, and who also functions in the next universe age.

So we can have three types of Creator Sons. Those who were born in the present age and who function as creators in the present age. Those who were born in the present age, who have personal memories of the present age, but who did not function as creators. And those who were both born and function as creators in the next universe age.

How big is the first outer space level? Well, it's just beginning to wind up now. They're pouring concrete out there. Haven't opened up the subdivision yet. Just laying sewers.

And already there are 70 thousand aggregations of matter--each one is bigger than a superuniverse. They're going to become tremendously bigger. If there are 70 thousand aggregations of matter, and 700 thousand Creator Sons, it suggests to me that each one of these aggregations will have assigned to it 10 thousand Master Michaels.

I think of these Master Michaels as being senior to and supervisory of those Creator Sons who have never yet functioned. I can see the two levels of creator activity. All Michaels are the same in nature, as all Thought Adjusters are identical in 90 divinity. But the Sovereign of Nebadon is something different that what he was when he came out from Paradise. His nature has been augmented by experiential additions, right? It is in this respect that the pre-Supreme Michaels will forever differ from the post-Supreme Michaels. Whatever experience the post-Supreme Michaels have, it will not involve participation in the growth of the Supreme Being. We will have two different kinds of Michael Sons--not different in 100 original divine nature, but quite different in acquired, experiential nature. Does this make sense?

If the Creator Son and Creative Spirit of Nebadon sometimes trinitize an equal creator, this being will be expressive not only of their Paradise divinity, but also of their experiential growth, right?

These post-Supreme Creator Sons and Creative Spirits who never function as creators in the superuniverses may sometime also 110 trinitize a being, but it will be a different kind of a being, won't it?

(Break in tape) Let's follow a local universe Mother Spirit out into the first outer space level. She and her Creator consort have been commissioned to function as creators out there. Can she create seraphim? Audience: I think so.

I don't.

Audience: Why not?

Because she's no longer working within the growing Supreme Being. Universe potentials have changed.

Audience: They contribute to the Supreme Being.

She is the same as the Creative Spirit of Nebadon. But what she's got to work with is different. I think she'll create ministering beings, but I don't think they'll be seraphim. I question that seraphim will be create-able after the present universe age.

You see how different it's going to be? We blindly assume, for example, that things which we see are universal, and they aren't, any more than air is universal. We know that if we go far enough off the surface of the earth, we run out of air. But we accept the Supreme Being as being a universal reality much as we accept the planetary atmosphere as being a universal environment.

The personalization of the Creative Spirit will be somewhat different out there than in here. She'll go out into outer space as a second stage spirit becoming a third stage spirit when she gets out there. But her achievement of personality must be something different from what it was in the present universe age. Her nature is the same; the environment is radically different, hence the experiential factor of growth will be radically different. I sometimes wondered if God the Sevenfold will remain God the Sevenfold. Or will God the Sevenfold articulate additional levels. Will God the Sevenfold become--let's just speculate boldly--God the Tenfold. Who knows?

How many levels of Creator Sons will there be? At least two, possibly three.

This seventh level of total Deity function is formidable, isn't it? Do you notice how this level sort of starts real absolute and swings down and comes back real absolute? Can you think of anything that's parallel to that?

Let's take a look, just for comparison, at universal, non-spiritual, energy systems--physical energies. This thing starts out with something which they call absoluta, space potency. And then it evolves into something called segregata, primordial force. And then it evolves into something called ultimata, emergent energy. And then it evolves into something called gravita, or universe power. That's matter as we understand it. Then it begins to swing back towards something absolute, because in Havona, they speak of energy as triata. And up on upper Paradise, in connection with the transcendental peoples, there is a form of energy known as tranosta. And then, the energy of Paradise itself is known as monota, and it's pure energy.

And the only way you can tell the difference between monota and the spirit associated with Paradise Deity is to give it a different name. Paradise material energy and Paradise spiritual energy are indistinguishable except by name. Isn't that interesting? That's the same sort of swing that we're encountering here in the seven levels of total Deity function.

Of course you well know there's an eighth level that isn't listed here. That's the absolute level. Let's consider how big is this master universe.

I wanted to figure out how big the first outer space level was. I'm intrigued by the fact that they have ten times as many Architects as they do for the seven superuniverses. But if you take the number three in relation to the number seven, you don't get a true estimate of the difference between the size of Havona and the size of the seven superuniverses, do you?

I know that there's 70 aggregations of matter out there, but they are already each one of them larger than the superuniverse. It's more than 70 times as big, isn't it? It's bigger, and more than 70 times bigger. All right.

What do the papers give us that we can reason with? On page 360 they give us the radius of Orvonton. It's 250 thousand light years. That's not the absolute radius. It can be off somewhat. But it's the distance from Urantia to Uversa. And we're told that we're out on the edge of Orvonton. So I'm going to assume that we're at the edge, knowing full well that we're not quite. But close enough for this calculation. I'm going to assume that if it's 250 thousand years in from the outskirts of Orvonton to Uversa, it must be another 250 thousand years from Uversa in to the inner margin of Orvonton. What I'm seeking for is the transverse diameter of a doughnut. Do you follow me? Where the hole is Havona. So, I'm going to assume that the transverse diameter of the doughnut, which is the seven superuniverses, is a half a million light years. And for conceptual purposes, I want to give that a scale value of one inch. I can't think of a half million light years. Gee whiz, the distance between the earth and the sun is what--15 light minutes. These are years!

Visualize the doughnut. I got a doughnut that is an inch thick through the dough. Now--pardon me, I've got to read this, because otherwise I can't remember, it's too intricate. The question is, I want to know what is the diameter of the whole doughnut? I've got the transverse diameter of the dough, but how big is the hole? We have no information on this subject. So I raise this question: Can we ignore the hole, or not? I think we can't, because I think Havona is very small as compared to a superuniverse. Let's reason now. Havona has got to have enough volume and space to contain one billion worlds. Forget the 21 satellites, and the dark islands. But the seven superuniverses have seven thousand billion inhabited worlds. There are seven thousand times as many inhabited worlds in the superuniverses as there are in Havona. And this completely ignores uninhabited spheres--suns, dark islands, architectural spheres.

Gee whiz, just for example--the number's worked out in here: "If all the projected local universes and their component parts were established, there would be slightly less than 500 billion architectural worlds in the seven superuniverses."

There are five hundred times as many architectural worlds in the superuniverses as there are in Havona. I'm referring to Jerusem's, Edentias, Salvingtons, Uversas. Five hundred billion architectural worlds, just slightly less. Listen. In case you think these inhabited worlds are any criteria of how many space bodies there are, at the end of the paper on the seven superuniverses, on page 182, they make this statement: "The grand universe number of your world, Urantia, is five trillion, 342 billion, 482 million, 337 thousand, 6 hundred sixty six." Audience: In what? I forget.

"That is the registry number on Uversa and on Paradise, your number in the catalogue of the inhabited worlds."

And I suspect they're registered in frequency, just as they are in Satania. We are six hundred six of the system of Satania, which means, six hundred five worlds developed human life before us. We were the six hundred sixth on which human beings evolved. That determined our number.

Now, that's a big number, isn't it? But listen to the next statement: "I know the physical-sphere registry number,"--in other words, they've got all physical space bodies registered, inhabited or uninhabited--"but it is of such an extraordinary size that it is of little practical significance to the mortal mind."

It's an altogether bigger number. So when I reason here that the seven superuniverses, based on inhabited worlds, are seven thousand times as big as Havona, that is a major understatement. They're altogether much bigger, aren't they? And these worlds aren't moving at random. They're moving in the linear procession of seven circuits. It takes more room out here for the helter-skelter motions of Orvonton as compared with the regular, orderly motions in Havona. I have the belief that the central creation figures in at probably 1/100th of one per cent of the total volume of the grand universe. One one hundredth of one per cent. Or, the relationship on one penny to a hundred dollars. I think such a small percentage of such a large volume can be cheerfully ignored. I think the hole in the doughnut is so small that we can calculate without worrying about it. So, I'm going to assume that the diameter of the whole grand universe is twice the transverse diameter of Orvonton.