WILLIAM S. SADLER, JR.
23 July 1960
OKLAHOMA CITY, OKLAHOMA
Part 7 of 11
Transcribed by Kristen Maaherra
Scanned by Christel Schmidt
Formatted by David KantorPart 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 Part 6 Part 7 Part 8 Part 9 Part 10 Part 11
Webmaster's note: These transcripts are presented here in unedited form. There are some discontinuities at points where the tape was broken and times when Bill turned off the recorder while he talked. These transcripts have not been closely edited for typos or scanning artifacts. If you are interested in improving the presentation of this material, please contact sysop@urantia-book.org
Audience: We tried to figure out the time that they had to spend on each planet--say 100 years, or a lifetime--on each planet, how they would have time to come back and do all these things.
I think they're moving fast.
Audience: Huh? They must be. But they have to spend a certain amount of time on each planet
Please bear this in mind. Your oldest inhabited worlds date back to 200 billion years ago. Some of these worlds must be pretty advanced by now. And they no longer--
Audience: Now you're speaking of our local universe?
Yes. And they've had a long time to make the rounds. They don't have to give each planet the same attention right now.
Audience: No, but you had to at one time.
Yeah, but they came along slowly.
Audience: He'd have to come and be born as a babe just as Christ did. He had to live his lifetime there. Then the second time he comes back, he's not born as a babe, but he makes his appearance. I don't know how much time he spends, but just consider that on each world of 700.
Uh-huh. Well, it's even worse than that. He also comes in a third sense, as an adjudicator, and then he's invisible.
Audience: Well, that's when we're settled in light and life.
No. When Caligastia arrived, a Magisterial Son came with him. And it was he who terminated the dispensation.
Audience: Oh, boy.
When Adam arrived, a Magisterial Son came at that time, too. But he was invisible. Nobody on earth knew he was here. Now, none came when Michael came, because he did that job himself.
Audience: He did that by himself. But there's 999 planets that they have to do it on and it's--
Sure they do. Sure they do. That's right. They've had a long time, though, to get their (can't understand tape) starting 200 billion years ago.
I don't know what's coming next. And no one else does. Because we never had a Magisterial Son. We had a Melchizedek bestowal.
Audience: Did we?
Audience: Machiventa.
Audience: Sure.
Audience: You better believe it.
Audience: Laughter.
And that only happened 6 other times in the local universe. So what lies ahead? Who knows. I'm sure of only one thing. We're going to get Trinity Teacher Sons some day. But that's a long time from now.
Audience: Well, the Trinity Teacher Sons--don't one of them come at each dispensation?
No, that's a Magisterial Son. He's an adjudicator, a judge.
Audience: I thought they had some performance to make at a dispensation (can't understand tape) Trinity Teacher Sons.
Let me check that.
Audience: Now that's in my mind.
Audience: Avonal.
Audience: They don't--they're not (can't understand tape) I understand.
No.
Audience: Magisterial Sons (can't understand tape) I believe they do.
Audience: There's so much to remember, I get confused sometimes.
Uh-hum.
Audience: (Everyone talking at once). Laughter ... takes a memory pill .. those (can't understand tape) pills?
They come at the tail end of planetary evolution. "Again we find Urantia out of step with its sister spheres in that your Jesus has promised to return. That promise he will certainly fulfill, but no one knows whether his second coming will precede or follow the appearances of Magisterial or Teacher Sons on Urantia." (598.4)
Audience: He'll come with the temple, won't he?
He'll certainly be here then, because he's the bestowal son.
Audience: Well, we'll have just the (can't understand tape).
I'm sure we will.
Audience: I'm sure.
Audience: Why?
Audience: Well, they're getting shorter each time. As we-
Audience: Not necessarily.
Audience: Getting shorter each time.
This is a statement of fact. Whether it will continue or not no one knows.
Audience: Well, I just said that was the pattern.
Uh-hum.
Audience: Well, I just say one thing. Functionally, we sure are (can't understand tape) compared to your story of the average world.
They give the story of an average world. And it's not (can't understand tape) one place. Did you ever look at page 567? In less than a page here, they tell the history of the world. "Life is initiated on the planets by the Life Carriers, who watch over its development until sometime after the evolutionary appearance of mortal man. Before the Life Carriers leave a planet, they duly install a Planetary Prince as ruler of the realm. With this ruler there arrives a full quota of subordinate auxiliaries and ministering helpers, and the first adjudication of the living and the dead is simultaneous with his arrival.
"With the emergence of human groupings, this Planetary Prince arrives to inaugurate human civilization and to focalize human society. Your world of confusion is no criterion of the early days of the reign of the Planetary Princes, for it was near the beginning of such an administration on Urantia that your Planetary Prince, Caligastia, cast his lot with the rebellion of the System Sovereign, Lucifer. Your planet has pursued a stormy course ever since.
"On a normal evolutionary world, racial progress attains its natural biologic peak during the regime of the Planetary Prince, and shortly thereafter the System Sovereign dispatches a Material Son and Daughter to that planet. These imported beings are of service as biologic uplifters; their default on Urantia further complicated your planetary history.
"When the intellectual and ethical progress of a human race has reached the limits of evolutionary development, there comes an Avonal Son of Paradise on a magisterial mission; and later on, when the spiritual status of such a world is nearing its limit of natural attainment, the planet is visited by a Paradise bestowal Son. The chief mission of a bestowal Son is to establish the planetary status, release the Spirit of Truth for planetary function, and thus effect the universal coming of the Thought Adjusters.
"Here, again, Urantia deviates: There has never been a magisterial mission on your world, neither was your bestowal Son of the Avonal order; your planet enjoyed the signal honor of becoming the mortal home planet of the Sovereign Son, Michael of Nebadon.
"As a result of the ministry of all the successive orders of divine sonship, the inhabited worlds and their advancing races begin to approach the apex of planetary evolution. Such worlds now become ripe for the culminating mission, the arrival of the Trinity Teacher Sons. This epoch of the Teacher Sons is the vestibule to the final planetary age--evolutionary utopia--the age of light and life." (567.3-8)
That's a very neat summary of an inhabited world, and wherein we deviate.
Audience: We deviate every which way, don't we?
We sure do. Let's read about Agondonters. We were talking about those, and you'd like to know what the word means, wouldn't you? Page 578.
"On first thought it might appear that Urantia and its associated isolated worlds are most unfortunate in being deprived of the beneficent presence and influence of such superhuman personalities as a Planetary Prince and a Material Son and Daughter. But isolation of these spheres affords their races a unique opportunity for the exercise of faith and for the development of a peculiar quality of confidence in cosmic reliability which is not dependent on sight or any other material consideration. It may turn out, eventually, that mortal creatures hailing from the worlds quarantined in consequence of rebellion are extremely fortunate. We have discovered that such ascenders are very early entrusted with numerous special assignments to cosmic undertakings where unquestioned faith and sublime confidence are essential to achievement.
"On Jerusem the ascenders from these isolated worlds occupy a residential sector by themselves and are known as the agondonters, meaning evolutionary will creatures who can believe without seeing, persevere when isolated, and triumph over insuperable difficulties even when alone. This functional grouping of the agondonters persists throughout the ascension of the local universe and the traversal of the superuniverse; it disappears during the sojourn in Havona but promptly reappears upon the attainment of Paradise and definitely persists in the Corps of the Mortal Finality. Tabamantia is an agondonter of finaliter status, having survived from one of the quarantined spheres involved in the first rebellion ever to take place in the universes of time and space.
"All through the Paradise career, reward follows effort as the result of causes. Such rewards set off the individual from the average, provide a differential of creature experience, and contribute to the versatility of ultimate performances in the collective body of the finaliters." (578.last-579.1,2)
Let's draw a parallel from American history. Can you think of-oh, let's say--1790. Washington is President, Philadelphia is the Capitol. Kentucky is being opened up. It's the frontier. Ohio is 25 years in the future yet. In Philadelphia there's elegance. Snowy napery, lovely silver and crystals, well-mannered occasions, culture, French is widely spoken--there's a French newspaper in Philadelphia that has considerable circulation at that time.
Break in tape.
Side 6
I don't think anybody would look at them and say, "Well, after all, you survived--but look at the break you had." No, as you look at their lives--
Audience: The responsibility is greater the more you know.
Yeah. Now, that's not in The Urantia Book, that's just a private theory of mine.
Audience: I think that's pure, unadulterated truth.
It appeals to me. It would make it fair.
Audience: (Can't understand tape).
Yes. Right. That's very true.
Audience: (Can't understand tape).
I'll buy that one, too.
Audience: Hardship builds character. That's the reason we're given these problems.
Jesus said, "I don't worry about you boys when you're being persecuted, but when all men speak well of you, you might get fat, dumb, and happy." And this can happen. And that did happen, when the church became pretty triumphant, it became pretty corrupt.
Audience: All the historians know that the churches have deviated from the teachings of Jesus.
Sure they do.
Audience: And they quote that we now have a religion about him instead of the religion of Jesus. Which amazed me.
Audience: What historians? What era of historian?
She's reading HG. Wells right now.
Audience: Laughter.
Audience: You know what I think's surprising with the churches today? I think the members of the churches are church-conscious instead of God-conscious.
Very true.
Audience: Did H.G. Wells ever read The Urantia Book, I wonder?
No.
Audience: Don't you think he should?
He's dead.
Audience: Laughter.
Audience: Didn't he have a chance to?
No. He died before it was published.
Audience: Did he?
Yeah.
Audience: Well, he had a little insight, didn't he?
Yeah.
Audience: Pretty smart boy.
His tribute to Jesus--considering Wells was not a religious man-but his tribute to the teachings of Jesus from one of his characters was one of the great tributes that was ever written in the English language.
Audience: I don't see how you can say how he wasn't a religious man, and I know that's what people say, but when I read that, I find that hard to believe.
When I read that section, I find that hard to believe, too. Where he describes Jesus as "some great moral huntsman" who's trying to ferret us out of the comfortable burrows of evil in which we delight to nestle. It's small wonder that men were blinded by his teaching and sought to bind him down and take control of him in any way--adulterated, modified, humanize it--because to take this man seriously meant to assay an unbelievable happiness.
Bring that down and read it to the group sometime, Berk. You know the quote I mean?
Audience: I read it one Wednesday night.
That's one of the greatest tributes that was ever paid to Jesus.
Audience: Tell them how it ends up.
You quote it.
Audience: "Is it any wonder-
Go ahead
Audience: "--that this Galilean was too big for our small minds." I think that is just beautiful.
Audience: I can't see how Wells could make that statement in writing and (can't understand tape).
Audience: I think he probably denounced churches and so everybody (can't understand tape).
Audience: Well, (can't understand tape), (Everyone talking at once) .. .I'm not going to worry about it ... Laughter ... Well, I've got too many other things on my mind.
Audience: You mean about cheating?
You've got to deal with a problem of semantics. I think one of your best things you could read there would be, Sholom Ashes' (Aleichem?], The Nazarene.
Audience: Where's that mentioned?
Sholom Ashes, I think it's The Nazarene. Read the Preface, in which this Jew tells of his introduction to Christ. He's a little boy, lived in the ghetto in Warsaw. And he was on his way crosstown to visit his uncle. All dressed up in his Sabbath best. And he was set upon by some older Polish boys, who taunted him with being a Jew. This little guy's about 4 or 5 years of age, now. He is all conversant with the big issues, you know. And they roughed him up, and they tore his clothes, and they got him dirty, and they wouldn't quit until he said, "We crucified Christ".
This was a little 5 year old Jewish boy's introduction to the word and concept, "Christ". This is how Christians introduced him to that. Now, when you consider what our tribe has done to that tribe, down through the years, small wonder that they find it difficult to accept the word, "Christ. "
If you want to really be ashamed of Christians, get Will Durant's, Age of Faith. And in the Age of Faith there's several parts. It gives you Byzantine civilization, Mohammedanism civilization, European civilization, and Jewish civilization. He tells the story of the Jews in the Middle Ages. I read that story with profound shame. The story of the Crusaders who stopped in the Rhineland on their way down and said, "Well, here's some handy infidels." The story of their final breakthrough into a Jewish temple to find every Jew therein, dead. They fought, and when they couldn't win, they killed their women, and the men killed themselves rather than to submit to forcible conversion.
The story of the Spartan German Baron who turned a castle over to the Jews, and the Crusaders never took that castle. The story of the Roman Catholic Bishops who protected them. This is quite a story to read. And if you ever want to be ashamed of being Christian, read that story.
But Sholom Ashes--he's writing the story of Jesus. And he prefaces it with the story of his introduction as a little boy to the Christ.
Audience: He's Jewish.
Sure, he's Jewish. How Jewish can you be? Sholom Ashes?
Audience: Well, that sounds Irish to me.
Audience: Laughter.
You read that story--he tells it very simply--this is how at the age of 5 he met Christ at the hands of some Polish Christian boys.
You see, it's like the kid who was in a class my old man tried to organize about the turn of the century. A bunch of newsboys. And Poppa got up to tell them a story about God. And he said, "God is like your father. He's like your father in heaven." And one little dirty-faced urchin said, "If God is anything like me ol' man, I want nothin' t' do wi' him, me ol'' man is a stinker."
Now, the word "father" is spoiled for that child. We've got a problem of semantics. Read Will Durant if you want to feel real impressed about being a Christian. This is what our tribe did to this tribe. It's the story of, "Come on in, Ike, we like your pepper and your trade." Then, pretty soon, the Teutons get smart enough to trade, so then they threw Ike out. They wanted the profit in the pepper. And they didn't let Ike back in until they got sharp enough so they weren't afraid of him as a competitor. That's the Jewish story all over Europe.
Now what the Jew doesn't realize - I've studied this, because I have to counsel with Jews - what the Jew doesn't realize is that the first persecution of the Jewish people took place B.C., not AD. And it's because they were feisty and different. They were a trading colony in Alexandria, and they didn't fit. The Egyptian, he lost the last battle. He's under the thumb. He understands. The Graeco-Macedonian, he won the last battle. He's the big shot. But who are these characters over here? They didn't conform. They won't go to church, they won't worship at our temples--they got their own particular God--they won't operate on the Sabbath. There's something screwy about these people. If they're screwy, they're not nice; if they're not nice, let's give them a bad time. So they gave them a bad time.
Yes. Sholom Ashes' introduction to Christ is something to read.
Audience: Is that out of print, I suppose?
Oh, try for it in the library, Berk. Don't buy all these books, use the library.
Audience: Why?
Well, The Nazarene isn't too good.
Audience: Isn't it?
It's the "Introduction" that's worth reading. Just the simple story of this little Jewish boy being introduced to the central figure of Christianity.
Audience: I didn't know you could get books at the library. I thought you had to buy them.
Audience: Laughter.
Audience: I want to ask one question.
Audience: We have 5 minutes.
All right.
Audience: Now. We have the Reflective Image Aids who are reflective of the thoughts of the Reflective Spirits. They speak for the Reflective Spirits. Now, what I want to know is, do they reflect those thoughts--are those thought reflections as such, or do they transmit words?
I don't know.
Audience: And language. Say. the Uversa language.
They communicate. By whatever technique.
Audience: (Can't understand tape).
I don't know. I suspect it's beyond words. They're communicating with the Ancients of Days. And I fancy that this communication is superverbal.
Audience: Rather than the Uversa language.
Yes. That would be my--
Audience: Might it be something like thought (can't understand tape)?
Yes. More like telepathy. In other words, the Ancients of Days are there, and they're receiving what these beings are sending. There is complete communication. And my guess is. it's superverbal. It's not subverbal.
Audience: And nobody ever gets to see the Reflective Spirits, do they?
Nope.
Audience: Somebody stands kind of between.
That's right. They're real mysterious.
Audience: But they're some type of personality, an odd type.
Well, they're the creators of the seconaphim. But then, nobody gets to see the Spirits of the Circuits, either. You commune with them. That's in Havona.
Audience: You're through.
But you do see the Master Spirits.
Audience: And I think that's good, too.
You see, these Spirits are different from the Sons. And here's the thesis for the difference--don't make this apply to all the Spirits, now. It won't. It will apply to a Creative Spirit, though. The Infinite Spirit is the archetype of all spirits, as the Eternal Son is the original Son. The Infinite Spirit came into being with Havona. The Son--theoretically--existed before Havona. And was a complete person before Havona.
You get a parallel at the local universe level. Michael is a complete person when he leaves Paradise to come out here. His creative consort is not. She is much more of a focalization of the Infinite Spirit than a person in her own right. Because she is going to attain personality, exactly as the Infinite Spirit attained personality. Only. the Infinite Spirit came into being in eternity, and she is producing her local universe in time. So we can see her evolve. When her local universe is settled in light and life, she will be just as personal as the Infinite Spirit. But during its evolution, she is personalizing.
Audience: In process.
She's in process. And she becomes augmented in personality as the local universe develops and as Michael's sovereignty develops. Now, all of the spirits are not persons. The circuit spirits are not. The image aids are images--they're not persons in any sense of the word. The Reflective Spirits are persons, but not contactable. The Master Spirits are contactable. The Adjutant Mind Spirits are not persons, they're a level of the consciousness of the Creative Spirit.
You get into a grey area in the Spirits that you never hit in the Sons. They're all persons, concrete persons.
Audience: I sure jump around, but I want to ask another question. The Trinitized Sons that are trinitized by Havona natives--
Creature trinitized sons.
Audience: Right. And by ascenders, two alike -- they aren't nearly as important as the mixture, are they?
I don't think that's true. I think they're equally important, but they're very different.
Audience: Well, the others will be useful in another universe age. And they aren't doing anything here.
That's right. But the Creature Trinitized Sons of homogeneous parents are of use right now. Now, these other folks are going to be useful some day. But not now.
Audience: They are being held in abeyance?
Right. I think they're of equal importance, though. But they're just different beings. What's going on in Vicegerington? I don't know. But I'll bet it's interesting. I bet they're plotting stuff out for the outer space levels there.
Audience: But they are never Trinity embraced in this universe age.
Not in this universe age, no. What lies in the future, no one knows.
Well, let's stop and think of an interesting thought. Just to throw this up for grabs. You like continuing things. We've got room for just exactly 700 thousand Creator Sons, because every local universe has a Union of Days--the ambassador of the Trinity-and there are exactly 700 thousand of these Days. That's a fixed number. No more are being created. But there are already more than 700 thousand Creator Sons. In one place it says, "more than 700 thousand." In another place it says, "well nigh a million." And they keep on being created. That means some Creator Sons are never going to have a chance to function in the seven superuniverses. They're going to have to wait for outer space. And their whole experience will be post-Supreme. As Creator Sons. And that's where I get the notion there's going to be two kinds of Creator Sons in outer space: Those who have functioned as Creators, and those who haven't.
If they divide up outer space among the Creator Sons who have worked in the seven superuniverses, then each Creator Son is going to be responsible for something on the order of but larger than a Major Sector of a superuniverse. And to me, it's quite likely that the younger Creator Sons will function under their jurisdiction. But that's all speculation.
And then what's going to happen in the second outer space level? Which is much bigger, ever so much bigger.
Leona, it's not only not going to stop, it's going to get tremendously larger. Enormously larger.
Audience: (Can't understand tape) There will be--there will be new planets?
Sure there will.
Audience: Oh. (Can't understand tape) these boys ... function there?
They can. But they aren't going to open that up until the whole thing gets opened up. They'll have to wait.
Audience: (Can't understand tape). Laughter.
Sure. They'll have to wait their turn. Let's close on one note here. We were talking about the quiet time between the universe ages.
"The perfected grand universe of those future days will be vastly different from what it is at present. Gone will be the thrilling adventures of the organization of the galaxies of space, the planting of life on the uncertain worlds of time, and the evolving of harmony out of chaos, beauty out of potentials, truth out of meanings, and goodness out of values. The time universes will have achieved the fulfillment of finite destiny! And perhaps for a space there will be rest, relaxation from the agelong struggle for evolutionary perfection. But not for long!
Audience: Oh. (Laughter.) Darn. .. I was so relaxed.
"Certainly, surely, and inexorably the enigma of the emerging Deity of God the Ultimate will challenge these perfected citizens of the settled universes just as their struggling evolutionary forebears were once challenged by the quest for God the Supreme. The curtain of cosmic destiny will draw back to reveal the transcendent grandeur of the alluring absonite quest for the attainment of the Universal Father on those new and higher levels revealed in the ultimate of creature experience. " (1293.1ast)
Audience: A lot of (can't understand tape) ... God the Supreme, and then we'll search for God the Ultimate.
Yes.
Audience: Where is that, now?
That's page 1293.
Audience: Will you tell me the page number--where is that "problem avoidance"?
I think I can find it on page 1294, Leona. 1293 is where I read the last paragraph of the Paper. On 1294, they give you their philosophy of growth, and then rest. And then growth, and then rest. They don't keep you running all the time. When you graduate as a senior, they let you stick around a while and enjoy being a graduate. You don't go to school; you teach a while. They don't make you become a freshman at a higher level immediately.
On page 1294: "Creative growth is unending but ever satisfying, endless in extent but always punctuated by those personality-satisfying moments of transient goal attainment which serve so effectively as the mobilization preludes to new adventures in cosmic growth, universe exploration, and Deity attainment." (1294.3)
Quiet periods.
"While the domain of mathematics is beset with qualitative limitations, it does provide the finite mind with a conceptual basis of contemplating infinity. There is no quantitative limitation to numbers, even in the comprehension of the finite mind. No matter how large the number conceived, you can always envisage one more being added. And also, you can comprehend that that is short of infinity, for no matter how many times you repeat this addition to number, still always one more can be added." (1294.4)
"At the same time, the infinite series can be totaled at any given point, and this total (more properly, a subtotal) provides the fullness of the sweetness of goal attainment for a given person at a given time and status. But sooner or later, this same person begins to hunger and yearn for new and greater goals, and such adventures in growth will be forever forthcoming in the fullness of time and the cycles of eternity." (1294.5)
"Each successive universe age is the antechamber of the following era of cosmic growth, and each universe epoch provides immediate destiny for all preceding stages. Havona, in and of itself, is a perfect, but perfection-limited, creation; Havona perfection, expanding out into the evolutionary superuniverses, finds not only cosmic destiny but also liberation from the limitations of pre -evolutionary existence." (1294.1ast)
You know, that's so comforting, because while the final goal is non-attainable, all other goals are attainable. And you have the wonderful feeling of goal-attainment. And, by gosh, you can sit on that goal for a little while and say, "I made it!" Whether it's citizenship on Jerusem, or Edentia. Or the attainment of Paradise. They never push you. They wait until you get itchy feet. When you get good and tired of being a graduate and want to be a freshman, this is the indication that it's time to move on to the new adventure. But they wait for your hunger to grow.
When you cross home plate, they don't make you go to bat right away. Everybody applauds (clapping)--the run, see--(can't understand tape).
Audience: Laughter.
And you don't have to go to bat until you're ready. I like that. And when you're ready, there's a new game.
Audience: Ob, boy (can't understand tape) ... this is down to a personal thing .my own growth ...
I can see these things happening in my own life ...Sure.
Audience: And wham (can't understand tape) I got the rug pulled out from under me. And everything fell down on my head, and I've learned more this last week than I've ever known about (can't understand tape) and I thought how stupid can you get? This is a result of those things I said I believed in.
Fair enough.
Audience: And then, sit back and relax and (can't understand tape) I didn't get to stay here real long.
Audience: There's a new game starting, and you have to get up to bat.
Audience: Laughter.
Audience: I'm just a kid that's got to be in the middle of everything going on.
Well, that's a great statement, there.
Audience: Ob, I love that.
Audience: I'll tell you what I like. When people ask why we have some of these papers in this book, I like this first paragraph.
Audience: (Everyone talking at once) ... oh, yes ... Laughter.
Audience: And I read it often to people. Read it, Bill.
"It is helpful to man's cosmic orientation to attain all possible comprehension of Deity's relation to the cosmos. While absolute Deity is eternal in nature, the Gods are related to time as an experience in eternity. In the evolutionary universes eternity is temporal everlastingness--the everlasting now." (1295.1)
I think of time as a railroad rail that goes from horizon to horizon for the past and the future. And I think of eternity as a great wheel that's rolling down this rail. And where the wheel touches the rail, that is the moving moment of the everlasting present. That's where time and eternity impinge. And I feel in my bones that there will always be a present. There always has been, there is now, there always will be.
You want to know where the--I'm not so sure I'm going to find these--I found them, and I've got them noted in my book.
Audience: Oh.
Let me see. It's got to be in Part II, I think.
Audience: Are you talking about the animal traits (can't understand tape).
Um-hum.
Audience: Well, it's on 551.
Audience: Thank you, Helen.
Well, I was getting close. I was on page 554 and working backwards.
Audience: Thank you, Helen.
Audience: (Can't understand tape). Yes. Aren't those awful?
Audience: Who? Procrastination? Problem avoidance? Much tougher than the 10 commandments. Much.
Audience: Where are we?
551, paragraph 3: "One of the purposes of the morontia career is to effect the permanent eradication from the mortal survivors of such animal vestigial traits as procrastination, equivocation, insincerity, problem avoidance, unfairness, and ease seeking."
That's murder. These are the cardinal sins of mankind.
Audience: Ease-seeking. Some people think that's (can't understand tape).
Audience: Does anybody do that?
(Can't understand tape) we all do.
Audience: Laughter.
Audience: Procrastination. Ease-seeking. Well, I didn't know I did any of that.
The only reason I don't seek ease is I don't have time. But I sure would if I had time! Oh, Lordy. Those are the cardinal sins of mankind. It's awful to read them. Procrastination, you put it off. Equivocation, you straddle.
Audience: (Everyone talking at once). Hmmm. ... What, now? ... I was going to ask you.
You straddle. You--ahhh--you don't commit yourself.
Audience: You broke a keel rudder, you--
Audience: Indecision. (Everyone talking at once).
You give them double-talk.
Audience: You broke a keel rudder, see.
Insincerity. Well, that's real bad. Problem avoidance. Said Scarlett O'Hara, "I'll think about that tomorrow." Unfairness. You're just plain sub-human. Ease-seeking. You're a definite animal. Animal vestigial traits. I used that in a commencement talk I gave up at Great Lakes. I said that I thought that their training as managers, and the whole profit system, and the whole whiplash of meeting reality on the economic level should help us be less mammalian and more human, which is-you get rid of these things. It made quite an impression. I just came out with these "animal vestigial traits."
Audience: What are you going to talk about tonight, do you know?
I thought I'd talk about you, Berk.
Audience: Laughter.
Audience: That should be interesting.
Audience: Don't leave out her one cardinal sin.
What's that?
Audience: She has no others.
Audience: Bill, I wanted to ask you a question.
I thought we'd get you and J.B. over to the platform. I'd use you as "before" and J.B. as "after" exposure to the book.
Audience: Laughter.
Audience: Like the preacher who (can't understand tape) .. . what means "vestigial" really?
Remaining.
Audience: Some time back, some fella (can't understand tape) and asked them what they wanted to be, and a great majority (can't understand tape) wanted to live in the suburbs, wanted to have all the conveniences, wanted to work for a big corporation where their salary was substantial, and--
Retirement is sure.
Audience: --and retirement is sure, and all the security. Well, when I was a kid, (can't understand tape) .. .I wonder what (can't understand tape) is coming to. Is it a tax problem that's robbing a man of his initiative that don't want to go through the (can't understand tape) or you don't have any charge offs to take that causes that or what?
I think it's the degradation of the individual. I think it's horrible.
Audience: I was surprised that they didn't have any initiative.
I think it's horrible. William White wrote a book on that, called, The Organization Man. And I see it in large organizations. I experienced it in Standard Oil. I worked at Standard Oil for a while. Six, seven years. And I got out of there just before they captured me with (can't understand tape) machines. I had such an equity in the pension (can't understand tape) I almost couldn't quit. And I finally decided, I couldn't afford to have any more equity, or I'd be bought and paid for. And I wanted out. I didn't want security, I wanted opportunity. I wanted to live. And take my lumps and my losses. And try and make a profit. I wouldn't go back for all the tea in China.
Audience: (Can't understand tape).
Hmm?
Audience: You were virtually enslaved.
I had it really good. I had it real good, because I worked for the Executive Vice-President, and I wasn't lost down the line. I had it as good as a young man could have it in a big corporation. But I didn't want it.
Audience: What one thing fosters creeping--I shouldn't say creeping--the galloping socialism that's (can't understand tape).
Every time civilization gets to a certain point--that I can read about, and this is especially true if you study Rome--always you get these rules and regulations which make it easy, because this is what people want. And this is what government gives them. And this goes on until they've got the thing so hog-tied that the thing collapses. This is how civilizations--they don't blow themselves up, they fall down because of internal dry rot. And I can see some real parallels between the Roman Empire and the United States of America.
Audience: Fast being realized. Fast being realized.
Um-hum. I see a loss of craftsmanship, a loss of pride in performance. Stuff is shoddy, right? We got a crazy little organization. We work hard. And you know, it just makes us awfully competitive. Even if we were kind of dumb, we'd have business, because we work hard. I even got the girls working hard at the (can't understand tape) level. We pay them so damn much money, it makes them think twice about losing the job. And we got good kids, so--
Audience: Do you have an opening?
Huh?
Audience: Laughter.
Audience: They wouldn't change very often, either, in those circumstances.
We get turnover, because we get them young, and they stay until they get married. At the moment, we have no pregnant females. We'll have one pretty soon, because we've got a couple of married gals.
Audience: One of our services in the office--part of my job is when (can't understand tape) I want a 35 year old girl who is married and who's had a hysterectomy.
Audience: (Can't understand tape).
You hit a point, and it's terrifying. You talk to these youngsters, and they want it easy. They're willing to do some work ...
Audience: Oh, sure.
You know, they don't want to--
Audience: But they're looking at that security, and they don't want responsibility.
I'll tell you a frightening statement in here. This is frightening. It'll mean more if I actually quote it Page 1548.
"The apostles learned from Jesus about the kingdom of heaven, and Jesus learned much from them about the kingdom of men, human nature as it lives on Urantia and on the other evolutionary worlds of time and space. These twelve men represented many different types of human temperament, and they had not been made alike by schooling." (1548.2)
Golly. The implications of that statement are frightening!
Audience: One of my pet peeves (can't understand tape).
Now, I had 9 years in school. And then I got out of school for 5 years. Then I went back. And I've always thought that that 5 year hiatus in there was real valuable, because I didn't believe what they taught me when I went back. I could think.
Audience: Um-hum.
I mean, I would filter things. I would listen, and I would say, "Well, this guy's sincere, but he could be wrong, you know."
Audience: (Can't understand tape) education is the assimilation and regurgitation of facts.
That's very true.
Audience: (Can't understand tape).
" ... they had not been made alike by schooling." Gee, that's a- They don't say anything more, but the implication is just terrific.
Audience: In analogy, what's the time sequence?
Hum?
Audience: In analogy, what's the time sequence? And I'm searching. I'm picking your brains, because you have read history and I haven't. The inevitable seems before us here.
Well, here's what happens. Here's where we're heading. Here's what we're looking at.
Audience: Time-wise, what are we looking at?
If we follow Rome--
Audience: The pattern, yeah.
If we follow Rome--and that means we don't blow ourselves up-
Audience: Right.
Then, we get softer and softer. We breed down. In other words, good germ plasm maintains the high standard of living and curtails breeding. And we keep lowering our basic aptitude level in the country. In time, we're soft picking for the Russians.
Audience: (Can't understand tape) or Chinese.
At the time. Or Chinese, yes. And then we become an enslaved people. And you have a planetary imperium which lasts until it decays. In other words, you have a world-wide empire. So we have a world government, only its imposed by force. And we go down simply because we give up. Or we're inadequate.
Audience: We breed ourselves out--
Sure.
Audience: --of stable position.
This is correct. The Romans went down because they never could provide a stable government. The last Roman who cleaned up the Rhine was Julian, the last non-Christian emperor. And he was made Caesar--which was the number 2 rank in Rome--and this guy from a scholar suddenly became a terrific general, and he made apes out of the Teutons; he just cleaned up the Rhine provinces so there were no Germans on the wrong side unless they were in the Roman army. So what happens? His soldiers proclaim him "Augustus," which is the top dog. And now he's got to fight a civil war with his first cousin. And that's the last time the Romans ever cleaned up the Rhine. They never got back there with a big army, in the meantime, everything's gotten rigid.
You're a baker. You're born in to the baker's union because your old man was a baker. And you can be condemned to death if you don't bake bread.
You're an alderman of a city. You don't want to be an alderman, but you're stuck with it; your old man was an alderman. But it's breaking you, the taxes. The only way you can get out of being an alderman is to beat it; (can't understand tape); take off and join a monastery or something.
You're a sea captain. You have to haul free for the Roman government 8 months out of the year. You can haul for yourself for 4 months. You see, you've got a completely rigid society. Currency is so debased that civil servants are paid in chits, which enable them to go to warehouses and draw what they need, avoiding money.
End of tape.
Side 9
Silver coins are made out of copper--copper with a thin silver wash on them to give them that silver appearance. Inflation has gone the final route .
Audience: (Can't understand tape).
Yeah. And then pretty soon the Romans die out first, the Provincials come in from Spain, from (can't understand tape), from Gaul, and they're good men. They maintain the empire. As they begin to play out, then the Teutons come in. And their allegiance is not completely Roman. There's bad blood between the Romans and the Teutons. And pretty soon the Krauts are across the Rhine, and the fat's in the fire, and the empire goes down. But it rotted internally first. At no time were the Romans ever able to whip the Germans on anything like an even basis, until they ran out of army. The Romans just had scientific warfare; the Germans just never could match them from a tactical standpoint. But pretty soon no more Roman armies. Then it's simple. You move in. That's the end route. In civilization, the weaker--being the more numerous--when they vote, they make it easier and easier and easier for themselves. And it's the stronger who pay.
Audience: And they procreate more like themselves.
That's exactly right, yes. This is not pleasant to contemplate. I just don't get excited about it. I'm concerned about just a couple of things. I have to make a living, support a family, and the rest of the time, I work for the blue book. Economics, politics, the atom bomb--I'll let other people worry about them. This is a full-time job. I've only' an academic interest in these areas. I'll let Mr. Nixon and Mr. Kennedy worry.
Audience: Well, my question was purely academic.
Sure. It's not pleasant to--
Audience: I wasn't picking your brains for your political ideology.
It's not pleasant to contemplate.
Audience: But I was picking your brains for (can't understand tape) projected into the past, I knew you-
I will say this. I think the greatest thing that's happened to America is Russia. We need a challenge badly. Because we're getting about like mashed potatoes. Now, Russia's got us scared. And, maybe, in meeting the Russian challenge, we'll avoid some of these pitfalls. I regard Russia as almost indispensable to American survival. Now, God knows, the Russians don't plan it that way.
Audience: Um-hum.
But that's their unwitting result
Audience: You've seen the first manifestation in the maintenance of arms subsequent to Korea, where it was (can't understand tape).
Sputnik was the greatest thing that could happen to us. It shook us. It shook us. All of a sudden we said, "Geez, competition." They didn't steal sputnik from us. We're real smug about the atom bomb. They swiped that. But they didn't swipe sputnik. And we still haven't developed the thrust that they've got in their engines. When Khrushev says, "We'll bury you, " he will. If we don't meet competition. One of these days--and this is going to have a salutary effect on our whole economics--one of these days we're going to have to compete with Russian steel in the international market And at this point the American union is going to have to learn a lesson or two.
Audience: Maybe three.
Maybe three. Correct.
Audience: Maybe three.
Right. Someday we're going to have to elect people who have ideas--
Audience: What about ideals?
And ideals. We haven't done too well lately.
Audience: We haven't done too well.
The president incumbent has performed just about the way I figured he would. He graduated in the middle of his class. He's trained as a staff man. He's not a (can't understand tape) ship commander. He's no Patton, he's no McArthur, he's no Ikleburg, even. He's not even a Montgomery.
Here. Just to take one idea now. Consider this. You know all the stink that's made about the Suez Canal. Now, we don't need the Panama Canal. It's not vital to our defense anymore. We don't have a one-ocean navy in two oceans; we've got a big air force. Why in the devil don't we offer the Panama Canal to the United Nations? And let the UN take over the Panama Canal bonds, you know, let them have the revenue, and let them payoff the bonds? We could still use the Canal just as we use it now. And what a beautiful gesture this would be. Because we're not giving away anything that's essential to us. The Panama Canal is no longer a strategic necessity.
Audience: We still (can't understand tape).
But why the devil don't we get smart and take the initiative? Instead of waiting until the Panamanians join Castro or something like that. We sit here, and we look at dictators in Latin America, and we give them medals because it's all peaceful. Then we wait, and we have a revolution, and what have we got? The alternative is not too good.
I'd like to see--why don't we get an ideology that's based on God? Instead of talking about the "American way of life." Which adds up to a very crass deal. This means more marshmallow topping on our sundaes. It means pickle relish plus mustard on our hot dogs, and more chrome on our automobiles. In other words, a real comfortable life. You know. Suburbs, security, whatnot.
Why don't we talk about God? This is a safe subject. This creates no controversy with Catholic, Protestant, or Jew. Or Mohammedan, or Hindu, or Buddhist. Why don't we fight this on an ideological basis? Those who believe in God versus those who do not believe in God. We need spark plugs in our cold war. We haven't got any.
Audience: Maybe, do you think, would it be in the realm of possibility that we could get (can't understand tape) instead of being the east and the west, the pro and the con?
It would be better.
Audience: That would be something that would drum up some (can't understand tape) in the cold war.
Yes, it would.
Audience: A nation, or a mortal, could find something-
That's right.
Audience: --to pound the table about.
You see, Clyde, our problem is that we lack virtue. We're selfish, slothful, ease-seeking--and the rest of the deadly --
Audience: And the rest of these--
We are good to other nations because we are afraid that Russia will be better to them if we aren't. We're in exactly the position of a devout Christian in the Middle Ages. We're going to give them a line not because we love God, but we're scared as hell of the devil and hell. We have yet to learn to respond to the good stimulus.
Audience: Instead of reacting to the bad one.
Correct. Shall we run over, Mr. President?
Audience: Yes, but it's a wonderful run-over.
Audience: Yes, it is.
This is outside of my line of (can't understand tape).
Audience: Damned if it is.
Audience: Laughter. Ha.
I don't futz around with this sort of stuff.
Audience: I'd like to divide the forces. On the little old planet.
Audience: (Can't understand tape). (Everyone talking at once). I'll give you a check ...
Audience: Bill, you evaded my question.
Audience: Where you at?
What's that?
Audience: Do you foresee, just possibly, the forces (can't understand tape) eventually arriving (can't understand tape) let's just say to heck with (everyone talking at once). Everybody line up on this side of the room who believes in God. Everybody who don't believe in him, get away.
Audience: Trust me with--(Everyone talking at once).
This I would hope--
Audience: This I hope you can foresee.
Sure. I think it's within the realm of possibility. Though we've got to get some leadership to do that And we haven't done too well lately.
Audience: Kids, it is 5 after 6 almost, and-
Audience: You still got your deal rotating. You want to listen to yourself?
Audience: No.
Audience: Well, you're foolishly spending tape there.
End of Tape.
15 October 1960 Oklahoma City, OK
Tape 1, Side A:
Use the small tape deck.
Audience: I'm on now.
Audience: Is it working now? OK.
All right. This is an analysis of:
Section 1. TIIE SEVEN LEVELS OF TOTAL DEITY FUNCTION.
The Papers instruct us (page 2, paragraph 4 to 11) that Total Deity is functional on the following seven levels: static, potential, associative, creative, evolutional, supreme, and ultimate. Since these levels are given in sequence, it is possible to make certain deductions about them. The three first-named levels--static, potential, and associative--may be regarded as pre-creative levels; they are levels of deity function that are before the creative level.
The next two levels--creative and evolutional--could be denominated out-going levels; they are levels on which deity is distributive and expansive in expression.
The last two levels could be denominated incoming levels; they are consolidating, unifying, and correlating levels. These last two levels--supreme an ultimate--are the levels on which take place the finite consolidation and the absonite consolidation of all the creative-evolutional expressions of deity.
We are further instructed (page 4, paragraph 11-12) that the seventh level, the ultimate level, is a final creative level. We may accordingly deduce that any activity of deity that might lie on beyond this level would be properly denominated super-creative. See page 4, paragraph 13.
If this reasoning is sound, we may then group the levels of Total Deity function under four major headings:
1. Pre-creative levels. These are the static level, the potential level, and the associative level. It would appear that these are pre-master universe levels of activity, at least in the main.
2. Out-going levels. The creative level and the evolutionallevel are the levels on which deity engages in an outgoing expression. Hereon is deity distributive and expansive, divinely revealed and creature-associated.
3. Incoming levels. These embrace the supreme level and the ultimate level. On the supreme level, all finite reality will achieve unification. On the ultimate level, all absonite reality will achieve unification.
4. Supercreative levels. These absolute levels of deity action are existentially attained by the Paradise Trinity. (See page 2, paragraph 14). But from the experiential viewpoint, they appear to be levels of post-roaster-universe activity. After the master universe.
The entire story of the master universe is almost entirely the story of the outgoing and the incoming levels--creative, evolutional, supreme, and ultimate. If this is the case, then we may further classify our concepts.
A Pre-creative levels. These are pre-roaster-universe levels of total deity activity--static, potential, and associative.
B. Master universe levels. These are the outgoing and the incoming levels--creative, evolutional, supreme, and ultimate.
C. Supercreative levels. These must be post-master-universe levels of total deity activity. These levels would be absolute.
We may now attempt to correlate our thinking concerning the levels of total deity function with our concepts of the pre-universe ages and of the universe ages.
Section 2. PRE-CREATIVE LEVELS OF TOTAL DEITY
FUNCTION.
We are now considering the static level, the potential level, and the associative level of total deity function as they may be related to the stages traversed in our exploration of the historic past of eternity.
Back of the Pre-Zero Concept. Or the "third pre-universe age." Here we are going back to the "hypothetical static moment of eternity." Potentials have not yet appeared. See page 1153, paragraph 3). This would appear to be the static level of the function of Total (existential) Deity. It should be noted that this level is a continuing reality now, as in the eternal past an in the eternal future.
The Pre-Zero Concept. The "second pre-universe age." At this point, we note the appearance of potentials, the separation of the qualified deity absolute from the unqualified absolute. This must constitute the potential level of the function of total deity. The appearance of potential seems to be inseparable from the appearance of some degree of associative function. The associative action of the universal absolute in unifying the other two absolutes. But this associative activity is pre-personal, pre-fraternal, and pre-trinity.
The Zero Concept. The "first pre-universe age." Total deity continues to function of the static and the potential levels, and at this concept point, we encounter a second-stage expression of the associative level - the association of the Universal Father and the Eternal Son. The associative function has now become personal, but it is still pre-fraternal (pre-spirit) and pre-trinity. We advance the opinion that this stage of development is also pre-creative. Neither the Son nor the Isle of Paradise seems to be "creations" of the Father; they seem to be more on the order of "divestments" which the pre-Father made in constituting himself Father of the Eternal Son and source of the Paradise Isle.
The First Universe Age. The age of Havona. We have now reached factual reality. In this age, deity continues to function on the static and on the potential levels. Deity now completes the associative level, in terms of the function of existential deity. The appearance of the Infinite Spirit and of the Paradise Trinity completes this level of deity function.
Section 3. PARADOXES IN TIIE STATUS OF HAVONA
A careful study of the status of the central universe discloses more than one paradox. Havona appears to be the perfect universe that was "created" by the Paradise Deities, but we are instructed that it never was actually created. See page 91, paragraph 7, and 1160, paragraph 1. We would suggest that the "creation" of Havona is an eternity-event and that such an eternity-action is pre-creative. If this is a valid line of reasoning, then we should look at the central universe from two perspectives.
A. Pre-Creative Havona. This is the eternity concept of the central and divine universe. This is Havona in the first age--an isolated existence. This is before the appearance of anything that relates Havona to the post-Havona creations.
B. Post-Creative Havona. This is the concept of the central universe in the post-Havona ages, the central creation in relation to the surrounding universes. This is Havona after the appearance of such beings as: the Circuit Spirits, the Havona Power Centers, Secondary Seconaphim, and Graduate Guides. Much actual time-creation has taken place. And from a functional standpoint, as we view Havona in the second--or present--age, it certainly functions like a created universe. The created universe of divine perfection.
So far, we have traced the unfolding of existential deity through static, potential, and associative levels, and Paradise Deity obviously functions upon all of these levels in the first age. Does existential deity penetrate any of the remaining levels at this time? As concerns the creative level, we've dealt with this question just above. The evolutional level would appear to be then existent as an unexpressed potential. But we are not so sure about the supreme level an the ultimate level. Again we encounter the problem of how to classify Havona.
On page 1162, paragraph 4: Certain phases of Havona existence appear to be on the order of maximum finites.
Page 1162, paragraph 5: Much of Paradise-Havona appears to be on the order of transcendental existences.
Page 1162, paragraph 6: The Paradise-Havona system is, in many ways, on the order of ultimate significance.
Page 156, paragraphs 8-14: Havona life (in the present age) is defined as extending from material through morontial and spiritual to absonite, ultimate, coabsolute, and absolute.
Page 1160, paragraph 1: Havona is not absolute, neither is it finite. Its natives never were created. Like a transcendental reality it intervenes between the superuniverses which are finite, and Paradise which is absolute. But Havona is not a transcendental reality; Havona is simply Havona.
Page 58, paragraph 7 and 8: God can modify his absoluteness because he is a being of free will.
Page 113, paragraph 6 and 8: The Paradise Trinity functions on finite levels and in such function is names the Trinity of Supremacy.
Page 116, paragraph 4 and 5: It also functions on absonite levels as the Trinity of Ultimacy. On absolute levels, such action constitutes the action of Total Deity and involves the functions of the Deity Absolute.
The classification of life in Havona seems to indicate that both finite and absonite existences were present in the first age. The several levels of the function of the Paradise Trinity suggest that the Paradise Deities in the Trinity were functional on supreme, ultimate, and absolute levels of total deity action, and that they so functioned in the first age. But this is the function of the existential deities in trinity. The experiential deities an trinities have not yet appeared on the stage of action.
Section 5. MASTER UNIVERSE LEVELS OF TOTAL DEITY FUNCTION.
In the master universe deity is both existential and experiential. Such deity functions on four levels, which we have grouped in two categories.
A Outgoing levels. Creative and evolutional expressions of the expansion, divine revelation, and creature association of deity.
B. Incoming levels. The supreme unification of the finite realities of time and space, and the ultimate unification of the absonite realities of transcended time and space.
The interaction of the function of deity on these four levels- creative and evolutional, supreme and ultimate--seems to account for just about everything that is happening in the master universe.
Section 6. THE SECOND UNIVERSE AGE.
The present age. This is the age of the seven superuniverses in relation to Havona, the age of the grand universe. In this age we should think of Havona as a created universe. The seven superuniverses start out at the creative level, with the appearance of the Ancients of Days and their Trinity-origin associates.
The organizers of the local universes are the created universe sons and spirits. In the local universes we observe the fullest development of the evolutional level. Here, even the universe creators undergo evolutionary growth. The arrival of Grandfanda in Havona introduces the evolutionary process into the perfect central creation. And thus the entire grand universe becomes subject to evolutionary change. This is the era of finite creation, finite evolution. and evolutionary growth by the technique of finite experience.
But the transactions of the second age are not solely creative and evolutional. There is also a reaching back on the part of experiential deity to a pre-creative level. We are informed that the Supreme grows in part as he is able to experientially actualize the associative-creative potentials of Paradise deity. Page 10, paragraph 6. This must involve some interaction between the third and the fourth levels of total deity function, associative and creative, which is induced by the Supreme Being.
Section 6-A THE "QUIET TIME" OF THE COMPLETED GRAND UNIVERSE.
We know there is a "quiet zone" between adjacent space levels (page 130, paragraph 1), so it is not unreasonable to assume that there could be a "quiet time" between adjacent universe ages. Let us assume that there will be such a quiet time following the settling of the seven superuniverses in light and life and before the beginning of the adventure of the third universe age.
During this quiet time, we can examine the completed Supreme Being without becoming involved in post-Supreme relationships. At this time, the Supreme Being would become fully functional on the supreme level of total deity activity. This would involve new relationships between the existential trinity and deities and the completed Supreme Being, who would then be active as the experiential sovereign of the perfected superuniverses.
The supreme level of total deity function is sometimes designated as the supremacy of deity. (page 2, paragraph 10). And we should remember that this is not the function of an entity or a trinity; it is a level of the action of total deity. (page 2, paragraph 4).
Page 12, paragraph 2: In the grand universe there are three aspects of deity that are collaborating: the Supreme Being, God the Sevenfold, and the Trinity of Supremacy.
Page 113, paragraph 6: The attitude and function of the Paradise Trinity in relation to the finite is sometimes designated the Trinity of Supremacy.
Section 7. THE POST -SUPREME AGES.
Ages of the outer space universes. These epochs embrace the last four ages of the master universe--the third, fourth, fifth, and sixth. During these eras, deity continues to function on the six levels of the action of total deity that we have already considered.
But now we must amplify our concept of the outgoing levels. The outgoing levels are the creative level and the evolutional level. Consider the following citations:
Page 3, paragraph 17 and 18: As a person, God creates; as a superperson, he eventuates. He functions in a superpersonal way in relation to absonite beings and these beings are eventuated superpersons.
Page 350, paragraph 7: There are many beings who are neither creators nor creatures. Transcendentalers do not create nor were they created--they eventuated.
Deduction: The concept of the creative level should be enlarged to embrace eventuation when we deal with post-finite growth in the outer space universes.
Page 1159, paragraph 6: The transcendentalers are superevolutional and superexperiential in their growth. They are not non-experiential, but their technique of growth is superfinite.
Page 13, paragraph 3: God the Ultimate is now "evolving."
Deduction: The concept of the evolutional level should be expanded to include transcendental growth techniques. This must mean a type of super-evolutional, but sub-existential, growth in which the growing being takes part, but it all takes place in supertime--time that is transcended.
Given this expansion of the meanings of "creative" and "evolutional," we may then conceive of these outgoing functions reaching out into the four outer space levels of the post-supreme ages. This would be, in part, the function of the first experiential Trinity.
Section 7 -A THE "QUIET TIME" OF THE COMPLETED MASTER UNIVERSE
Let us again assume that there will be a "quiet time" after the completion of the growth of the entire master universe. We can then deal with the concept of the completed ultimate without becoming involved in the questions of the post-ultimate age.
In the concept of the completed master universe, at the close of the sixth age, we can visualize the full and final function of experiential deity on the seventh level of total deity activities, the ultimate level.
This means the completed evolution eventuation of God the Ultimate. This level, sometimes designated the Ultimacy of Deity, (page 2, paragraph 11), is also a final creative level. We may now conceive of this level as being occupied by the existential Deities and Trinity of Paradise, by the First Experiential Trinity, and by God the Ultimate, the experiential sovereign of the Master Universe.
Section 5. SUPERCREATlVE LEVELS.
The post-ultimate ages. The ultimate level is defined as a final creative level, hence anything that might lie beyond it must be supercreative. A possible post-ultimate level must be an absolute level and must involve developments that lie outside the master universe. The second experiential trinity, the Trinity Absolute, is related to these levels. (page 1168, paragraph 2). And so, also, must be the cosmos-infinite. (page 1168, paragraph 3).
It will be recalled that the seven levels of total deity function are identified as static, potential, associative, creative, evolutional, supreme, and ultimate. The absolute level is not included in this inventory, although it is mentioned later. (page 2, paragraph 14). And a little farther along, reference is made to God the Absolute. (page 4, paragraph 13). The seven levels include neither the absolute level nor the possible future function of God the Absolute.
And we are further informed that this absolute level is existentially attained by the Paradise Deities in and as the Paradise Trinity. We accordingly believe that there is reasonable warrant for our exploration of the implications in the foregoing statements--implications that certainly do suggest that total deity will sometime function on a level or levels that are post-ultimate.
ARE THERE TEN LEVELS OF TOTAL DEITY FUNCTION.
We may now recapitulate the classification of total deity function, but with certain amplifications.
1. Pre-creative levels. Since these levels are pre-creative, they are for the most part pre-master-universe levels. But this is not completely true of the associative level. These levels include:
1. The static level.
2. The potential level.
3. The associative levels.
II. Master universe levels. These levels, apparently, have to do with the development and growth of the entire master universe. We may best consider these levels in two groups of two each: outgoing and incoming.
A. Outgoing levels. These are the levels of deity activity that are distributive and expansive.
4. The creative level.
5. The evolutional level. It will be recalled that our concept of
the evolutional level includes absonite growth as well as finite growth.
B. Incoming levels. These are unifying and consolidating levels of deity action, levels on which finite and absonite power-personality synthesis is taking place.
6. The supreme level.
7. The ultimate level.
III. Supercreative levels. Here we are extending the list of seven to include three conjectured levels that would be absolute. On these levels, the function of total deity would be supercreative.
8. The re-associative level.
9. The actualized potential level.
10. The static-dynamic level.
These levels would pertain to the advance of the post-ultimate age, the completed master universe, and the cosmos-infinite.
A MIRROR IMAGE
It may be desirable to consider the broad reasoning behind this concept before going on to a more detailed study of each of these conjectured supercreative levels. Total existential deity functions initially on what appears to be a succession of three pre-creative levels, passing from the static to the potential, and then to the associative level.
When the function of total experiential deity breaks through the final creative level of ultimacy, we have the feeling that the ensuing supercreative levels will be something like a "mirror image" of the three pre-creative levels.
In other words, they can be compared by pairs. The eighth level would be like the third, the ninth like the second, and the last level would be like the first.
This idea, together with some speculation concerning the possible future eternal functions of deity, suggested the choice of names for the supercreative level.
The third level is the associative level; it's compared with the eighth level, the re-associative level. The second level is the potential level; it's compared with the ninth level, the actualized potential level. And the first level is the static level; it's compared with the tenth level, the static-dynamic level.
The associative level accommodates the three existential persons of deity and the formation of the Paradise Trinity. The re-associative level may provide for the appearance of the three persons of experiential deity and the formation of the Trinity of Trinities.
The potential level provides the capacity to bring forth what deity has willed and purposed. This is the presence of the three absolutes. The actualized potential level would be the level of the theoretical accomplishment of such will and purpose. This would mean the experiential unification of the three absolutes.
The static level is self-contained and self-existent. The static-~dynamic level might be self-revealed and self-realized. The term static-dynamic is an odd one. But the Papers use exactly this term in the discussions of the functions of the universal absolute on page 15, paragraph 4.
Turn it off.
Break in tape.
ONE WAY OF LOOKING AT THE HUMAN MIND
Here's one way of looking at the human mind. Think of a planetarium. You've got a big dome overhead. It's half of a globe. In the center is the big projection gizmo that they throw the stars up overhead.
Now, what we need to add in visualizing mind is a second hemisphere--one underneath. So now visualize yourself as being in the middle of a great big globe.
And there's a platform right in the middle of that globe. That platform is circular. There's a searchlight mounted on that platform. And it will swing through a 360 arc and go all the way around. And it will traverse about 10 up and 10 down. So that you can light up what you might call the "torrid zone" on the interior of this globe. A little ways above the equator, a little ways below the equator.
Now, when you turn that searchlight on and shine it against the globe, the spot of light is your consciousness at any given moment. And you can move your consciousness around. You can think about places you've been. You can think about abstractions. You can think about things that have never existed, like a purple cow. You can visualize this. You can think about mathematical relationships. You can swing this all the way around.
When you go to sleep at night, you turn the searchlight off. And the dome is all in darkness now.
The neither hemisphere, to me, symbolizes the subconscious mind. And as you go down into the lower depths--and it can get pretty sewer-like and sticky down there--it's a mammalian mind. This is an animal mind. It's characterized by animal cunning, animal desires. And it's a completely amoral mind. The concept of right and wrong does not exist in the nether hemisphere of the human mind.
But if you're going to posit a subconscious--and the Papers make this suggestion--why not posit a superconscious? Now we're dealing with the upper hemisphere. Here, I think, you do have moral discrimination. Here, I think, you understand values. On the lower level, the most you'd understand would be meanings. The meaning of something. But never the value of something.
The concept of higher or lower conduct would be characteristic of the upper hemisphere. I think this upper hemisphere is tangent to another globe outside of this globe we've been talking about. This exterior globe is the human soul. And above it, and tangent to it, in turn, is the Thought Adjuster.
There is a working picture of a human mind. It's three hemispheres, of which the--
Audience: The soul is outside?
Yes. Don't make it go on all fours. It's three hemispheres-
Audience: (Can't understand tape), right?
It's three hemispheres, each of which are touching. The soul touches the superconsciousness, and in turn, the upper reaches of the soul touch the Thought Adjuster. They're tangent. There's communication going on. But your conscious mind seldom, if ever, knows the content. of the soul or the message of the Thought Adjuster. But the soul knows both the human mind and the divine spirit.
The soul is conscious. But the soul cannot communicate this consciousness to mortal consciousness.
Audience: The soul is conscious?
I'm sure it is.
Audience: I mean, I don't know why you say sure, but it seems logical, it'd have to be--it'd have to be that or unconscious.
Audience: While you're there, would you elaborate on the Trinity Teacher Sons and the Inspired Trinity Spirits--how they work on those two levels?
I think as we get up into the morontia life, now, I think we still have--let's say this is pre-fusion. All we do is we've got a morontia mind in the lower hemisphere. And the soul. And the Adjuster. The Trinity Teacher Son acts on the level of consciousness in teaching. And this is an important part of teaching. But the Inspired Trinity Spirits teach on the level of the unconscious, or superconscious.
As the Papers point out, there's some information if you were conscious of getting it, your ego would keep you from learning it. But if you could get it superconsciously, or unconsciously, then you could absorb it properly. And as the author of that particular Paper goes on to say, he's talked to many people--some of the high sons--who testify that they are positive they have received instruction that they were not conscious of receiving at the time. They discovered it there later on.
Like the Circuit Spirits were discovered in Havona. No one knows exactly when they were created, except they know they were not a part of the original creation. They just found them there one day.
Audience: (Can't understand tape).
What they're suggesting is that there's two levels of teaching, and they're related. And to me it's quite significant that both types of teachers come from the Trinity. The Teacher Sons, of course, are very personal. And, to spirit beings, contactable. The Inspired Trinity Spirits are just as invisible to most spirit beings as seraphim are to us. Very few personalities can see Inspired Trinity Spirits. So you don't know when they're around.
Solitary Messengers can detect them. Trinity-origin beings can see them if they're in charge of them. But otherwise, they're invisible.
Audience: They do not touch us until we're in the morontia worlds?
I'm not sure, Lola
Audience: (Can't understand tape)
They might teach our souls.
Audience: Could it be up to the individual? In other words, one person (can't understand tape) know, or see, or do, (can't understand tape).
Conceivably. I think the soul is conscious.
Audience: Now, you said--
For this reason I'll give you some evidence, Clyde.
Audience: I'll buy superconscious. But conscious as it reads here--
All right, superconscious.
Audience: The connotations of that word-
Audience: You'd better be quiet.
Audience: That might be (can't understand tape) think that's the word, really, but I think that (can't understand tape) of a better one, Clyde.
Audience: Laughter.
In talking, on page 432, paragraph 5--they're talking about Supervisor Seraphim. 432, paragraph 5. And they're attached to the constellations, which is the legislative center of the local universe. It says:
"These seraphim seek no special favors for one group or another, ..
They can run a Gallop poll. And they're not going to poll the conscious mind of man, they're going to poll men's souls. A member of the reserve corps of destiny, I think, at the level of the soul, knows he's a reservist. But except under unusual circumstances, he'd never know that consciously. As we understand the word consciously.
Audience: That's right, he wouldn't know it consciously.
But the soul is a knowing, understanding, perceiving entity. But the soul can't make personality choices. The personality is resident in the conscious mind. There's only one big, red button of choice, and that choice is at the human level of consciousness in this life. It will be in the soul on the mansion worlds. They'll move the button
Audience: (Can't understand tape).
Because this mind is gone. It's a dead pigeon. Your free will is exercised in connection with the spotlight. Is what you know you're choosing. Now, I think this. I think you can have--I think either hemisphere can materially affect choice. If you are a complete victim of the sins of human nature--procrastination, equivocation, problem avoidance, ease-seeking, and unfairness- if you sink into that as pilgrims sank into the "slew of despond, " you can drown! in the lower hemisphere of the mind And that's non-survival, I think. You just wallow in animalism.
Audience: Bill, that is why these tranquilizers and happy pills are wrong for us.
As a steady diet, yes.
Audience: (Can't understand tape) drop back into (can't understand tape) procrastination and ease-seeking and problem avoidance--
I think that any drug has its place, but it's not a food. You don't eat it every day. I use tranquilizers, but I sure don't make a diet of them.
Audience: (Can't understand tape).
Um-hum. I don't think you ought to overdo aspirin, you know? Now again, you can benefit from the seepage from the upper hemisphere. Little by little, if you're sincere, and have courage-make decisions-and are honest of heart ... You're making an awful mess of your life, but you're looking for God. You know what I mean?
You're awkward in your search. You step on your own feet and on other people's feet. You use the wrong spiritual fork when you sit down to a spiritual meal. You're gauche. But you're looking. Little by little, I think, re-vivifying truth seeps down from topside. And little by little you acquire those attitudes where suddenly one day you realize you've made a choice. You discover one in existence. You've adopted an attitude. You've passed a constitutional amendment without quite realizing it. You're for God.
Audience: Bill, as you turn that spotlight high into the dome, which is your consciousness as of that moment-
Yes.
Audience: How does it pass through the inner shell and touch the middle shell?
It can't, I don't think.
Audience: The only contact is through osmotic (can't understand tape) from the middle shell downward
The only steady contact.
Audience: You can't get it through that first shell (can't understand tape) and touch on the middle shell.
Audience: (Can't understand tape).
Audience: Now the middle shell feeds downward, doesn't it? And impinges (can't understand tape).
And receives from topside.
Audience: And, boy, yeah, it's--lots of osmotic-
It's hooked into (can't understand tape).
Audience: Action moving down the pump from the outside.
Right.
Audience: But I'm trying to get the light from the inner shell to the middle shell. Which to me would give a connotation of a conscious soul.
Next: Part 8