Site Index

---

WILLIAM S. SADLER, JR.
23 July 1960
OKLAHOMA CITY, OKLAHOMA
Part 9 of 11
Transcribed by Kristen Maaherra
Scanned by Christel Schmidt
Formatted by David Kantor

Part 1     Part 2      Part 3     Part 4      Part 5      Part 6      Part 7      Part 8     Part 9    Part 10      Part 11

Webmaster's note: These transcripts are presented here in unedited form. There are some discontinuities at points where the tape was broken and times when Bill turned off the recorder while he talked. These transcripts have not been closely edited for typos or scanning artifacts. If you are interested in improving the presentation of this material, please contact sysop@urantia-book.org

---

Audience: I probably would have (can't understand tape).

Audience: We were just talking about (can't understand tape).

Yeah.

Audience: (Can't understand tape).

Who?

Audience: Luke.

Oh, Luke.

Audience: Talking about-were you there, weren't you there (can't understand tape). Helen was.

Audience: No. I wasn't there.

Audience: You were there. I want to get (can't understand tape) he had to get it from hearsay and second
and third and forth hand.

Luke was like a newspaper reporter. Searching out the story.

Audience: An excellent one.

What?

Audience: An excellent one.

Audience: He did it, that's obvious. Because (can't understand tape).

Well, Luke--as the Papers say--was a humanitarian. Luke loved people. And therefore, his narrative of Jesus' life is redolent with evidence of Jesus' love for the people. There are many stories of Jesus' love for people.

Audience: So they had that in common, love.

Sure.

Audience: Well, that's the word love again.

Audience: But (can't understand tape) missed a great deal on the story of Jesus childhood. As he wrote it, it was very poor.

Audience: Well. (can't understand tape) interested in it too much, predominantly, was he? It had no bearing on what he was trying to do. maybe.

No.

Audience: He was, (can't understand tape) I mean, verbatim, I never even thought of it before (can't understand tape) no reason for him thinking as (can't understand tape) he was just trying to back up what he already in his heart felt (can't understand tape) and there's many interpretations of course on Christ's life as a child (can't understand tape) anywhere in the Aquarian Gospels (can't understand tape) I don't know whether there's any truth in it or not.

Audience: (Can't understand tape) I had just finished this one when we got The Urantia Book I said, B.M. Salier, tell me which one shall I believe? And he looked me right in the eye, and he said, "You believe that which to you is true." I've never forgotten that.

Good answer.

Audience: And that cut me loose from-in just a week or two I was just completely cut loose from (can't understand tape) the Aquarian Gospel.

Audience: It's not a question of wrong, Wilma, it's a question of which end of the stick you're on. Pardon my stick again. That's my evaluation (can't understand tape) I don't think anything in a sense is wrong, if a person wants to believe it. To them.

Audience: (Can't understand tape). Bill, when Jesus cured the everlasting--

Audience: Yeah.

Which one?

Audience: Oh, well. let's see. It's the one-

Audience: When he came down the mountain?

Audience: (Everyone talking at once).

Audience: He also had an old (can't understand tape) midwayers.

Audience: You remember what (can't understand tape) when Peter said if nothing else he was going to build a temple for Elijah (can't understand tape).

It was the son of James of Safed.

Audience: Yeah. And the boys tried but they didn't do so good.

Audience: (Can't understand tape) on 1755.

Did he have an evil spirit? I've forgotten.

Audience: James of Safed, uh-huh. He had an evil spirit.

Audience: What were you going to ask about him. Berk?

Audience: About the mind. That those spirits invaded.

Audience: Yeah.

Audience: Was that intellectually-

I think this boy was probably not very well integrated and probably semi-feeble-minded maybe.

Audience: There's nothing in there that says he had a nervous affliction. But it doesn't say anything (can't understand tape).

Well, a midwayer can -- Midwayers work with the reservists. And they do this by entering the human mind, I think. And I think these rebellious midwayers were doing the same thing, except they were up to no good purpose. This can be a very benign thing, or this can be a sinister thing, as was the case here.

Audience: So can they still do that?

No. Not since the-

Audience: Pentecost.

Not since the arrival of the Adjusters and the Spirit of Truth. See, this boy may not have been Adjuster indwelt. This is before the pouring out of the Spirit of Truth. This is now technically impossible.

Audience: But there's nothing in there to intimate that he (can't understand tape).

Audience: How come you qualify it.

Well, notice maybe he didn't have a Thought Adjuster. Maybe he didn't have built-in spiritual defenses.

Audience: How could Christ make him well then?

He had authority.

Audience: He had authority?

And those who could take the midwayer in hand were there. They were prepared to take him in hand when they were instructed to.

Audience: Now, this is another case. I wonder how many there are of them. Maybe Bill knows.

I don't.

Audience: Where--you don't know what I'm going to ask you, Bill--where Jesus healed through the faith of another person. Not the faith of the person who was being healed, but the faith of another person. This is two we've had in three weeks.

James of Safed was one. The Centurion was another.

Audience: And the other one was a woman who came in--they tried to send her away.

Audience: That was (can't understand tape).

Audience: And she (can't understand tape).

Audience: No, no, no. (Everyone talking at once).

Audience: She brought her little girl, and they all tried to send her away because she was Greek.

Uh-huh.

Audience: The crumbs from the table (can't understand tape). Veronica of--no, she was another one. That was when they were up in Phoenicia.

Audience: Yes.

There are three.

Audience: That's three so far.

Audience: There's quite a few of them. I'm not so sure there are others.

Audience: (Can't understand tape). (Everyone talking at once). Would (can't understand tape) daughter have been one?

That was the Centurion, wasn't it?

Audience: No.

Audience: That was (can't understand tape). I have never counted those.

Audience: There was the woman (can't understand tape).

Audience: Now this Assyrian woman (can't understand tape).

Audience: I thought she was Greek.

Audience: The same one he spoke with.

Audience: (Can't understand tape).

Audience: No, I think he spoke (can't understand tape).

Audience: I'm sorry, (can't understand tape).

Audience: What did Jesus (can't understand tape).

Audience: A little boy, he had epilepsy (can't understand tape).

Audience: (Everyone talking at once). We brought that up (can't understand tape). We got into a little discussion on (can't understand tape).

He might not have been Adjuster indwelt. Because they weren't all, prior to Pentecost.

Audience: (Can't understand tape) because the faith of the other person caused him to heal.

Audience: And they definitely weren't indwelt by the Spirit of Truth?

No, there was no Spirit of Truth on the planet at all before Pentecost.

Audience: We were discussing some of this at lunch today, Bill (can't understand tape).

Audience: We are studying these healings right now over here in the teachings of Jesus in our Wednesday night class. The reason why we're interested (can't understand tape).

Audience: Bill, what do you think about spiritual healing?

I think it's psychosomatic. And it's very real.

Audience: Sure it is.

I think if you believe, this is psychological as well as spiritual. And this can affect your ductless gland system and your ductless gland system is the source of your blood chemistry. And this can produce physiological changes.

I think you can have spiritual killing, too, in that sense. We've been through this before. You know, the witch doctor who was going to knock off the tribesman who's violated a major taboo. And when he gets to the ritual, the tribesman is so frightened, he gets so much adrenalin in his system, it ruptures the heart muscle, and he's dead. This must have happened many times.

Audience: (Can't understand tape).

Right.

Audience: Oh, that's definitely right.

I have a-I have a--oh, pardon me.

Audience: No, go ahead.

I'm more interested in what you've got to say.

Audience: Well, if your faith--as happened with the woman who touched Jesus' hem, and he said, "Your faith made you well. "

Audience: Made you whole.

Audience: Made you whole.

This is no psychosomatic--

Audience: Well, then why wouldn't your faith do it now just the same as it would then?

Because you're lacking the presence of the Creator who can reach directly into potentials and produce direct changes in actuals.

Audience: (Clapping).

Audience: You see, I concede that (can't understand tape).

Audience: It can't be done, then.

Remember, Immanuel warned Michael. He said, "Now, please remember, we're going to strip you down as far as we can strip you for this incarnation, but there are certain Creator prerogatives which are inalienable from your personality, and they still will center there in potential--so that if you should will to any superhuman action, it will happen. "

And if Jesus were here today, incarnated as a human being, the same things would happen. In terms of chemistry, you're missing the catalytic agent. Here. Sodium will bum in air. That statement is almost a fact. But not quite. If it's dry enough, it won't. There's always some moisture present, except under laboratory conditions of desiccation. And if you finally desiccate that environment, sodium will not bum in air, because it can't get started.

Now, when Jesus was here, you have hooked into a human being--a real human being, with all his emotions and sentiments--you have hooked in the creator prerogatives of a son of the Universal Father and Eternal Son. And what happened in Jesus' presence sometimes was psychosomatic and many times was physiological. Actual changes took place.

Example: Lazarus lay in the tomb three days. And during that time, his body rotted just like any human's body that isn't embalmed will rot for three days. And this was a technological tour de force when they reconstructed Lazarus' body. This is a much tougher thing, technically, than to resurrect Lazarus. And to show what a perfect job they did, he died a second time of the same darn thing later on. They rebuilt him, including the weakness.

Audience: Are they the Life Carriers who rebuilt him?

And Master Physical Controllers.

Audience: And Master Physical Controllers.

I think some people who felt they were sick, felt they were well. I think other people who really were sick were healed. Consider the widow's son at Nain. He wasn't dead, but Jesus got credit for a resurrection.

Audience: And Peter's mother (can't understand tape).

Sure. But Lazarus was really dead. Good and dead.

Audience: Stinking dead.

Yeah, stinking dead. If Jesus were here, it would work. But it won't work with him not being here.

Audience: (Everyone talking at once).

Audience: I was wrong last week, weren't I?

Audience: You see, it won't work, Mary Kay.

Audience: You see, there's so many articles appearing (can't understand tape) now, and there's so much of this talk going on, and there are conflicts with Andrew, and every so often we like to do--

Berk, can I get to the philosophy behind this? In the faith of Jesus, they give me a key to understanding that I've shared with many people who I haven't even told about the book. It's this. When you take reality and divide it up, it divided functionally into thing, meaning, and value. That's in the last couple of pages in The Urantia Book. And these three realities operate with different laws.

I remember talking to a Christian Scientist, wife of a college professor friend of mine. And we compared notes. And she only believes in one kind of energy. In Urantia terms, this energy would be about 80% mind and 20% spirit, multiplied. And since she believes in only one kind of energy, there's only one set of laws that operate.

But I believe in three energies. And the laws of matter are not the laws of spirit out here in time and space. And the laws of mind differ from both. If I want to produce a material effect, I do not pray. I use reason, mathematics, and science to set up a material cause. And if I'm skillful, I always get a material effect. It never fails.

Audience: (Can't understand tape) something material.

I use reason, mathematics, the scientific approach. If I'm in the department of values, mathematics if blind as a bat. What is the amplitude of love? What's its mass, its hue? Its rate of propagation?

Audience: Wave length.

What's its wave length, yeah. This is ridiculous. Love doesn't come by material quantity. Parents have a child. They love the child. They have another child. Where does this additional love come from? If they're careless Protestants or practicing Catholics, they may have a large family.

Audience: Laughter.

And still they have plenty of love for each child.

Audience: Oh.

Now, this doesn't work on the budget. When you get down to money, there's only so much money. But there's never just so much love.

I have faith in the department of values. That's my technique. And I generate a religion. I am totally unafraid of this universe, because my Father happens to be the Boss.

But this is strictly in the department of values. I carry quite a lot of life insurance, and especially heavy travel insurance, because as I told my wife, "Honey, I can't guarantee to come home, but if I don't, you'll be a rich widow. You'll have plenty of (laughter) (can't understand tape).

Audience: (Can't understand tape).

Sure. To me, those are two entirely different attitudes. I trust God. But I don't think God gives a hoot whether I catch it on the (laughter) (can't understand tape) to Dallas Sunday night, or I live for 40 years. I don't think he cares.

Audience: He can't afford to.

Audience: I do.

Audience: I don't.

I don't think God does. I think other people may.

Audience: (Everyone talking at once). No, I think God does (can't understand tape)--other personalities--he's a fragment of your soul.

No, I don't think the Thought Adjuster cares, no. He's concerned about my relationship to God, only.

Audience: (Everyone talking at once). Yeah, but if you've got potentials, kind of hanging out there without anybody (can't understand tape).

I think maybe--Let's assume, Mary Katherine, let's assume that this should be written. I don't know whether this is ego or truth or what. I'm writing it, anyway. I can see where some of the planetary people here might feel real bad if this didn't get written. And I've made arrangements to make sure that it will be written if anything happens to me. I mean, I'm like David. I've got a second in command appointed with instructions. And I'm not afraid of it now. Enough of it's written so that it could be finished.

This, I think, might be important to them. But not to God. There's no past or future to God.

Audience: What? I thought (can't understand tape).

The Thought Adjuster isn't time conscious. Just distant-from-God conscious.

Audience: Say that again?

The Thought Adjuster is not time conscious. Just distant-from-God conscious.

Audience: (Everyone talking at once). He is conscious (can't understand tape). I think he cares (can't understand tape).

Were a long ways away from God.

Audience: (Everyone talking at once). I know we are (can't understand tape). Bill, I think he cares (can't understand tape).

What?

Audience: I tell you he cares.

Why?

Audience: I know guardian angels.

Oh, sure. Sure. The guardian angel might care a great deal. The guardian angel is a time being. Midwayers might care. All kinds of folks down on the planet might care.

Audience: They care (can't understand tape).

But not God.

Audience: If we hadn't done (can't understand tape).

God's timeless.

Audience: Actually, that's good.

Now. Look. In their pure estate, values and things don't touch. They just don't touch. They both touch a middle zone: meaning. And here, you don't use reason, you don't use faith. You try to use logic. And here is where you have a thrilling opportunity to try to work out a philosophy which will reach out on the one hand to things, and on the other hand to values, and try and reconcile them.

I've been put to the test on this a few times, Mary Katherine. I remember many, many years ago when my children were quite young. And my daughter came down with double pneumonia. And she was a real little tyke, and we didn't have penicillin in those days. And I got booted out, with my son William. And the apartment was turned into a hospital. My good aunt was over there with her sleeves rolled up. That child was pretty sick.

And I remember going outside, and there was snow on the ground. The stars were very bright. Old Willie was getting himself pretty well soaked in the snowdrifts. And I wanted to pray.

And I said [to myself], "All right, buster, the blue chips are down on the table. You want to practice a little magic? You want to ask the Creator to suspend a few natural laws?" It's revolting to me. Because I know better. This is an effort to practice magic. To ask God for a "special deal." You know, "I want a special discount. We'll do this one under the table. If you'll do this for me, I'll do this for you?"

Audience: Laughter.

Oh, I had all the urge, Mary Katherine. And I said, "No, we're in the department of things. I believe this." I've got the best pediatrician in town on the job. We're doing every material thing that can be done to combat a material problem. And this is the way I think I should look at it.

But, I says, I still want to pray. And then it hit me. No permanent damage could befall that baby. Death is not permanent. (Crying). And then I could pray intelligently. I've never been so damn thankful in my life. That the universe is set up so that no permanent damage could be done. The prayer I prayed was one of thanksgiving.

Audience: (Can't understand tape).

But it's such a temptation to want to practice magic.

Audience: You know, I find it very hard to pray for people who are ill.

Audience: Well, Bill -- (Everyone talking at once). Jesus was right--(can't understand tape). I think it's between God and the person who's ill (can't understand tape) I would be trying to put my will in (can't understand tape).

Sure.

Audience: I wouldn't do it for myself.

But now look, let's beware of this now.

Audience: All right

Don't ever take prayer away from a person.

Audience: How can I do that (can't understand tape) I don't want to (can't understand tape).

When you find somebody praying who's trying to practice magic, you let them practice magic, now.

Audience: (Can't understand tape) tell them not to.

Because better they talk to God for a bad reason, than they stop talking to him.

Audience: (Can't understand tape) talk to God.

And be as wise as Jesus was at Joppa when Gadiah asked him, "Do you suppose the big fish really swallowed Jonah?" Never subtract a person's reason for righteous living. Until he's ready to outgrow an old reason for a new truth.

Audience: That's right. (Can't understand tape).

Never take anything away from anyone. Remember Teherma (page 1592), the Persian, who came to the Pella camp, talked to the 12, packed his bags. He was going home. And they had the wit to bring him to Jesus. He talked to Jesus. He unpacked and stayed.

Audience: Laughter.

Now, they don't tell us what the 12 said, but I've tried to reconstruct it. And I can imagine he got up against a theologically-minded guy who said, "Now, the first thing you've got to do is get rid of this fire-worship." And this, of course, was offensive. It would be just like saying to a Christian. "Now, let's get rid of this cross business that you folks are--you know--idolizing."

Jesus probably said to him, "Teherma, the ministry of the Divine Spirit is like the purging flame which bums away the dross in human nature and leaves only the pure gold of character. " He speaks favorably of the flame. And Teherma unpacked.

Or if you're talking to a Chinese of that time, why not use good semantics and say, "God is the honored ancestor of all men." "The primal ancestor. "

Audience: The what?

The primal ancestor. The first ancestor.

I have a great feeling of tenderness for people whose philosophy is immature. I remember an old Negro who used to stand guard in front of the office of the President of Standard Oil. William Oxford. And I cooled my heels out there occasionally when I had business to do with the old man. And we talked. I remember old Oxford telling me about somebody being adrift out in the Pacific, and--at a time when all hope was gone--some bird lit. And they got the bird, and they ate the bird And it gave them the strength to live one more day. And they were rescued. He said, "Isn't it wonderful the way God looks after people in distress?" And I don't think God had a thing to do with that bird. But I just said to William, "Isn't it wonderful."

Because this added to Oxford's faith.

Audience: He thought.

Yeah. I'm not going around subtracting from people. This is an evil thing to do, I think.

Audience: You (can't understand tape). (Everyone talking at once). Jesus said not to (can't understand tape).

Yes?

Audience: You (can't understand tape). It's hard not to do that, too, you know.

But, Mary Katherine, if you'll think of thing, meaning, and value--such simple little words. And I find it helps me tremendously in thinking straight about life. I just avoid a lot of confusion. Where am I? Which department am I doing business in, see? They've got different rules and regulations in these three departments. And if I want to produce a result, I've got to work in different ways.

If I want to love people more, there's no use working arithmetic about this. You pray for this. The only place I know to get any more love is to ask the source of love for more.

If I want to get to Oklahoma City, I think I should call the (can't understand tape) and travel agency. I don't think the wings of prayer are going to move me one inch off my backside in Chicago.

Audience: Laughter.

Now, if I try to understand this difference, now I'm in the middle ground. (Can't understand tape) this difference? What does it mean? Now I'm philosophizing.

Audience: Bill, don't you think it's a great deal of trouble for people to think what department they're in, and they don't want to face what department they're in.

That's right

Audience: (Can't understand tape).

Audience: They don't know, period

Audience: I don't know. I mean, I didn't realize what I've (can't understand tape).

Now, you take a real child-like person like the Alpheus twins, and they believe. They have a real firm faith. It's so simple. They just are going to accept the things that happen, and they're going to put up with them, and they're going to keep on believing, and they're going to make it without any philosophy at all, or any science.

Audience: To whom do you pray, Bill?

A very few times in my life I've talked to God. Very few. Usually, when I think my gas tank is empty, and I'm right in the middle of going up a big hill, mostly I don't pray. Mostly I talk. And I talk to my partner. This is a very frequent occurrence. I've only prayed a few times in my life. Seriously. Mostly I talk to my partner, and I say, "Now, look, Joe, how are we going to do a better job on this thing? See, I mean, you're in this with me. I'd like to be more useful. "

Audience: Well, the (can't understand tape).

Or I may just talk to him.

Audience: Generally speaking, that kind of (can't understand tape).

But a few times, I've--

Audience: What's your pattern (can't understand tape).

Once or twice in my life, I've talked to him. I've triedto talk to the boss.

Audience: Whether you say Jesus, Father, or God, I don't think it matters..

No. I agree with you.

Audience: (Can't understand tape) there's a channel.

Yes.

Audience: (Everyone talking at once) (can't understand tape).

They've got a good sorting office for mail that's misaddressed.

Audience: That's beautiful.

They open it up and say, (can't understand tape) (laughter) "You don't mean (can't understand tape) you mean (can't understand tape). "

Audience: (Can't understand tape).

That's right. Mostly I talk to my partner.

Audience: Bill, if you spoke to God, and your prayer was answered by God, it was channeled right back down through the same sources as if you were talking to Jesus.

I'll tell you this, Mary Katherine. I've consistently, all my adult life, prayed to be useful. And I think that's why I've been no stranger to tribulation. I think I've kept it coming. It's been a great temptation to stop that damn prayer, you know what I mean? Laughter.

Audience: Bill, in the last 4 years, I think I have prayed more for strength to love others.

It's a good prayer.

Audience: Greater, greater love. And it is coming to me just, oh--

This is good. That's a very legitimate prayer, I think.

Audience: And my prayers for those who are ill is that God will give them mercy and strength and courage. But to just ask God to keep alive people--

Audience: Oh, well I couldn't do that.

No.

Audience: You're alive here--(Everyone talking at once).

Audience: Do you think there's any limit? You mentioned here a material limit to material energy. Do you think there's any limit to spiritual energy? I mean unselfish spiritual energy.

No.

Audience: I know that (can't understand tape) usual night and day a lot of the time, you seem to be (can't understand tape).

Audience: Laughter.

(Can't understand !ape) can't bear it.

Audience: (Can't understand tape) too, bless his heart.

Audience: Well, I know, but look how much he gives, look at how much he's giving.

Audience: As long as he's giving, I think he'll be all right, too.

Audience: Mostly I meant in fun.

Audience: Oh sure you are.

It's variety that's restful.

Audience: You said there's no limit to love. Well, there's no limit, I don't think, to spiritual energy. (Can't understand tape) so many times in my life the people who were trying to do something, they were giving all the time. It was like they had an unlimited energy. I have seen that sometimes in my life. Not often.

There's no limit to love, but there's limit to action.

Audience: Yes, that's right.

You've got your body involved now.

Audience: Yes, I know that.

Going back to prayer, Mary Katherine, let's not leave this too simple. Prayer is psychological as well as spiritual.

Now let's say that--let me be a person who believes that I can ask--honestly ask God for anything. That's not hurtful to someone else. I'm ethical. But I'm confused about thing, meaning, and value. And I want a promotion. I want it real bad. I missed it the last time. I can see it's going to open up again a couple of years from now. Every night I'm on my knees asking God for help to get this job. And I'm praying with total sincerity.

This can have a very powerful affect right on the intellectual level in sparking my own purely human resources. So that I may think that God has answered my prayer, when I may be answering my own prayer. Because when you pray, you're dealing with mind as well as spirit. And this can produce--

Audience: (Can't understand tape).

This can confuse the issue like nobody's business.

Audience: (Can't understand tape).

Audience: Yeah, but I don't think you can sit down and ask God for something without some effort.

Audience: This is the thing that I was asking when I said (can't understand tape).

If you're doing it sincerely, you're apt to work harder at it. That's my point. The think repercusses on a sub-spiritual level.

Audience: But could you--if you're doing it sincerely, you know you've got to do your part.

Yes.

Audience: You won't ask something for nothing.

Yes.

Audience: (Everyone talking at once).

And I think in the act of praying, you have to think more clearly. Now, I kind of envy people who can do that. I can't.

Audience: Well, that's what I'm not--I used to do that

Yeah. I know.

Audience: Before I got-

Audience: (Everyone talking at once). Before you got converted.

Audience: You can't do it now, can you?

Audience: And this book took something away from me.

Right.

Audience: And it was a long time before I could get my balance back.

Yes, this is correct.

Audience: What did you used to do (can't understand tape) I missed the point.

Pray for material help.

Audience: (Everyone talking at once).

Audience: I didn't know where--I didn't know--I couldn't pray.

Audience: Well, are you beginning to deal with it now?

Audience: And I didn't know who I could pray to. To whom I could pray.

Yeah.

Audience: You see, it took my--it took prayer away from me.

Audience: (Everyone talking at once).

Not unless they're unhappy with it.

Audience: It's already been proven. It's not going to bring those material things, and you know that it isn't going to.

That's right.

Audience: (Everyone talking at once). Some place for material- Well, I wouldn't.

Audience: Prayer, to me, is something like Bill said, he talks to his partner. Prayer, to me, was talking to the Lord, (can't understand tape) or to my God--

Sure. And it gets very (can't understand tape).

Audience: My God.

Audience: Yes, you understood him.

Audience: And then, all of a sudden, I didn't know who I was talking to. There wasn't anybody there to talk to.

Yeah.

Audience: A real scary thing, wasn't it?

Audience: Well, it really is.

Audience: I would think Urantia would teach you more how to properly pray.

Yeah.

Audience: (Everyone-talking at once).

Audience: It took away that thing (can't understand tape).

Audience: You say, oh, I need a parking place so bad. I know people who do.

No.

Audience: I know people who do. (Everyone talking at once).

Mary Katherine, I talk to my partner about inconsequential-

Audience: You understand what I'm talking about.

Yes, I do. Sure. You talk to your Thought Adjuster that way now.

Audience: Oh, is that what we do?

I talk to my partner about inconsequentials, because I think the ideas I'm expressing are not nearly as important to my partner as the fact that I'm showing him some attention.

Audience: That's right. That's the way I feel.

One of the folks in Chicago was asking--he's got a 7 -year-old. And he said, "What do you talk about?"

And I said, "Anything."

And I said, "Look, you take your son to the zoo. " And I said, "He babbles away."

And I said, "Are you really interested in the intellectual content of his discussion, except as an indicator of mental progression?"

I said, "No, but you're enjoying the fact that he's showing you some attention. You're his father. "

And I said, "I think an Adjuster feels that way about us. It's the attitudethat could give pleasure to your partner."

End of Side 2.

Tape 3, Side A:

That's right. And I think that's a nice thing to do, to give pleasure to your partner.

Audience: Bill, don't you think that that is just about right, the overall sense, it's your attitude toward a thing.

Sure.

Audience: Not who or what.

These are the keys of the kingdom, sincerity. You start with an attitude. Then you do something. This means you learn something. Which then becomes (can't understand tape).

Audience: Laughter.

Audience: Bill. Bill, after having tried it my way, and it didn't work, I tried it the way which I thought was best. The only thing I can pray for is knowledge for God's will for me (can't understand tape) and I don't need the man upstairs telling me (can't understand tape) I don't know what else that means.

You could pray to be useful.

Audience: Well, I do that.

Sure. Because if you follow God's will, you willbe useful in someway.

Audience: I guarantee if you're doing God's will you won't just sit on your information.

That's right.

Audience: Bill, I think our coffee break's over. Do you-

Audience: When did we have a coffee break?

Audience: You have "1. Space and Mass" that I'm quite interested in. Would you like to try it for us?

Well, it's the discussion of the size the universe. Do you want to hear it?

Audience: It's in the baby. All right.

Audience: I made a note as you went by. You was reading them things. The fourth creatures when you get through with that.

Audience: (Can't understand tape) Laughter.

Let me read fourth creatures first. That's a real cutie.

Audience: Fourth creatures first. (Can't understand tape). (Everyone talking at once). You weren't listening to what he was reading out (can't understand tape). Fourth creatures first. Fine.

Audience: What do you mean I wasn't reading it? I mean, listening? (Everyone talking at once). (Can't understand tape).

Audience: Turn your little deal on, Berk

All right. You'll have it. This is Appendix #8, entitled, "Fourth Creatures. "

Appendix 8:

FOURTH CREATURES

Gregor Johann Mendel (1822-1884) was an Austrian, Augustinian abbot who discovered one of the basic laws of inheritance in plants and animals. What he discovered is a law of chance that seems to govern whenever there is interaction between two factors that are different in nature.

Mendel's ratio is encountered in the Papers in the narrative of the origin of Havona ServitaIs, Universal Conciliators, secondary midwayers, and is probably involved in a modified manner in the origin of cherubim and sanobim.

SECI'ION 1

MENDEL'S RATIO, A LAW OF CHANCE

There is nothing mysterious about Mendel's ratio. It is simply a law of chance. It can be demonstrated very easily with eight checker pieces and a man's hat. Four of the checker pieces should be of one color, and the other four of a contrasting color. Say white and black. Put all eight in the hat and draw them out two by two, so that there are four pairs of checkers. If this is done for a number of times, a dozen times or a hundred, it will be observed that the pairs of checkers average out for each group of four pairs as a double white pair, two mixed pairs, and a double black pair.

When I was a kid, I did this all one afternoon and kept score. It works.

Audience: Laughter.

We can express this in the following manner: WW plus WB plus WB plus BB. This is nothing more than an algebraic relationship. If you multiply A plus B by itself, you get A square plus 2AB plus B square. Or, to write the answer in a more recognizable form: AA plus AB plus AB plus BB.

Mendel worked this out with peas, tall ones and short ones. What we've been looking at is the second step in this experiment. The first step is the cross-breeding of the talls and the shorts. The first thing that Mendel discovered was that one of the two factors-tallness--wou1d completely cover up the other factor-shortness. All of the cross-bred peas were tall.

This ability of one inheritance factor to cover up another one is called, "dominance." And conversely, the tendency to be covered up is called, "recessiveness." In the case of the peas, tallness is dominant, and shortness is recessive.

When the two are crossed, all of the first generation are tall. They look tall, but they actually carry a submerged short inheritance factor. The presence of the submerged short inheritance factor is demonstrated in the second generation, with the working out of Mendel's ratio: TT plus Ts plus Ts plus ss.

Here we are using a capital "T" to indicate the dominant tall factor, and a lower case "s" to symbolize the recessive short factor. Mendel's ratio is a ratio that is expressed as three-to-one (3: 1), three taIls to one short.

But the three talls are not alike. They all look alike, but only one of them will breed one-hundred per cent tall peas. The other two will continue to breed out in the three-to-one ratio, thus demonstrating that they carry both dominant (tall) and recessive (short) factors of inheritance.

The Papers do not speak of Mendel's ratio. Or a three-to-one ratio. But they do use the term, "Fourth Creatures." This refers to a type of being where every fourth creature is, in some way, different from his fellows.

Page 273, paragraph 12;

274, paragraph 1;
275, paragraph 5;
422, paragraph 7;
423, paragraph 5.

The use of this term, "fourth creature," is nothing more than a re-phrasing of Mendel's ratio. "One-out-of-four" is the same as saying "three-to-one. "

SECI'ION 2

SPIRIT DOMINANCE: SERVITALS AND CONCILIATORS

Spiritual and physical realities seem to exhibit varying degrees of dominance and recessiveness in relationship to each other. In non-personal situations in time and space, physical realities seem to dominate. In personal situations that involve the expression of divinity of purpose, spirit, spirit-mind, is dominant over the physical. All in proportion to the attainment of divinity of purpose. (page 484, paragraphs 1-4).

Havona Servitals

These beings are of joint origin in the Seven Master Spirits and their physical associates, the Seven Supreme Power Directors. (page 273, paragraph 11). This is a clear-cut interaction of spiritual and physical inheritance factors. The results of this interaction are exactly in accordance with Mendel's ratio of three-to-one. (page 274, paragraph 2). In this instance, the relationship of the two factors could be expressed as: SS plus Sp plus Sp plus pp. Three Servitals are spiritual in appearance, and one is quasi-physical: a fourth creature.

But are all three of the spiritual Servitals really alike? From Mendel's ratio we may deduce that one of the three is really different from the other two. Is there any evidence to support this deduction? There is.

Servitals are often assigned to superuniverse service and upon returning therefrom are sometimes embraced by some deity presence on Paradise. (page 271, paragraph 2). Almost one-fourth of the Servitals who are so embraced do not emerge, but apparently transmute to another and higher order of being, the Graduate Guides. (page 271, paragraph 3-6).

It is quite significant that just about one-fourth of the Servitals transmute. And we believe that these are the Servitals who have the double spirit inheritance. Apparently this process has no effect on the Servitals who carry a mixed set of factors.

Universal Conciliators

The origin of Conciliators is a superuniverse reflection of the Central Universe origin of Servitals. (page 275, paragraphs 1-2). This being the case, the Conciliators have the same basic inheritance of interacting factors of a spiritual and a physical nature.

Since the Conciliators are grouped by fours for service, Mendel's ratio is not hard to detect. Conciliators appear to have the following inheritance: SS plus Sp plus Sp plus pp.

One of them is the unanimous choice of the other three to act as Judge-Arbiter, the head of the commission of four. We believe that this is the Conciliator with the double spiritual ("SS") inheritance. One Conciliator is, by obvious physical nature, the Divine Executioner. This is the Conciliator who has the double physical ("pp") inheritance. The other two Conciliators fill the remaining two positions on the commission. (page 275, paragraphs 5-7; page 276, paragraphs 1-2).

SECTION 3

PHYSICAL DOMINANCE: THE CHILDREN OF ADAM BEN ADAM

When Adamson and Ratta procreated their kind, this union represented the combination of two mortal but superhuman strains of inheritance. They had 67 children, and every fourth child was different from the rest. It was often invisible. (page 861, paragraph 6).

These fourth children were the immediate procreators of the Secondary Midwayers. And so far as we know, the Secondary Midway creatures were the only progeny of these fourth children.

There were 16 of these unique children. Here we have an example of physical dominance which could be expressed as-and now we're using a lower case "S" and a capital "P," because the "P" is dominant: ss plus sP plus sP plus PP. The double-
s-combination would be a fourth child.

This relationship is almost one-to-three. It works out as 16/67ths, which is 23.88%--just a little more than 1 % short of the theoretical 25%.

Now this raises some interesting questions. Especially concerning the nature of Hellenic culture, for the Adamsonites were among the progenitors of the Greeks. (page 895, paragraphs 3-6).

Consider the direct-line human descendants of Adamson and Ratta. This human stock suffered the loss, the permanent loss, of a normal, human, spiritual potential factor amounting to 23.88% of what should have been normal for their group.

This means that the remaining human reproducing strains--as they presumably intermarried--eventually possessed only 76.12% of normal. spiritual growth potential. There was no diminution of intelligence, only the loss of that potential for spiritual growth represented by the 16 fourth children who bred the Secondary Midwayers, and whose strain was biologically lost to the human race.

Does this explain why Hellenic culture was so brilliant in the fields of art and philosophy but always seemed to be somewhat backward or retarded in the field of religion?

Audience: What do you think?

I think it is. I can't prove it. It seems reasonable. By the time the remaining progeny intermarried, they would spread out this spiritual inheritance. But they've only got about 3/4ths of the normal complement to work with. They're a little bit shy. They're not zero in this area. They're just missing about 25% of what they should have had.

Certainly, the story of the evolution of religion in Greece is not the glorious story of the evolution of art and philosophy. As you consider what the Jewish people did with religion as compared with what the Greeks did. The Greek religion never really got off the ground very far.

SECTION 4

CHERUBIM AND SANOBIM

Cherubim and Sanobim is another order of being that is characterized by fourth creatures. (page 422, paragraph 7). Here, however, we encounter somewhat of a mystery. The Ministering Spirits are created by the Local Universe Mother Spirit and, accordingly, have only a single inheritance. (page 286, paragraph 3).

In each of the other instances--Servitals, Conciliators, and Adamsonites--we've been dealing with the interaction of two sets of inheritance factors. With Cherubim and Sanobim, there is only a single inheritance factor. How can this be explained?

We are informed that Material Sons--the Adams--represent a Creator Son's "last concept of being," and that their appearance in dual form--male and female--confirms the dual origin of the Creator Son. (page 415, paragraph 2).

A Creative Spirit is of single-origin (page 203, paragraph 7), but she works in both physical and spiritual domains. In the early history of a local universe, as a physical organizer, and--later on--as a spiritual creator. (page 374, paragraphs 2-4).

Cherubim and Sanobim seem to represent a Creative Spirit's "last concept of being." So far as concerns the ministering spirits. Is the dual-inheritance factor that is seemingly in their nature a reflection of this dual-function, physical and spiritual, in the Creative Spirit?

Regardless of the validity of this line of reasoning, the Cherubim and Sanobim, are characterized by Fourth Creatures--morontia Cherubim. We can express their inheritance factors as: SS. Sm, Sm, and mm, where the capital "S" stands for the dominant spiritual inheritance, and the lower case "m" stands for the recessive morontial inheritance factor.

It is interesting to note that Cherubim and Sanobim are classified in three groups: ascension candidates, mid-phase Cherubim, and morontia Cherubim. (page 423, paragraphs 2-5).

We would speculate that the ascension candidates would constitute about one fourth of the number and would be those with the double spiritual inheritance. We know that the morontia Cherubim account for one-fourth of the total number, and they of course would have the double morontia inheritance. The remaining one-half would appear to be truly mid-phase in nature, having a mixed inheritance, and thus functioning as typical or average Cherubim and Sanobim.

Want to turn it off?

Break in tape.

--one of energy magnitudes. And, frankly, my math isn't that good. But Bud took a statement out of these Papers, and derived Einstein's formula from it. What is it? "E equals MC squared"?

Audience: But it works (can't understand tape).

Audience: But I got it second-hand from the owner (can't understand tape).

Audience: Is any of this completed yet on this "Energy-Magnitude" did you say?

Not on energy, no. Bud's writing that one. I can't write it. I'm not up to that. This is:

APPENDIX 16:

SPACE AND MASS MAGNITUDES OF THE MASTER UNIVERSE

The Papers give just enough in the way of information to make it possible to calculate the magnitude of the Master Universe. The calculations made in this Appendix are based on two groups of data: information concerning distances, and information concerning the mass of physical creation.

INFORMATION PERTAINING TO DISTANCES:

SPACE MAGNITUDES

Page 358, paragraph 8: The radius of Orvonton is just under 250 thousand light years.

Deduction: The transverse diameter is around 500 thousand light years, twice the radius.

Page 130, paragraph 1: Between the superuniverses and the primary space level, there's a quiet zone that averages 400 thousand light years in width. Around one half million light years from the periphery of the superuniverse, there is a zone of energy activity that grows in intensity for over 25 million light years. This is all in the primary space level.

Deduction: If this zone increases in intensity for over 25 million light years, then it is logical to deduce that it decreases in intensity for another 25 million light years. We deduce that the transverse diameter of the first outer space level is on the order of 50 million light years.

Page 130, paragraph 2: More than 50 million light years beyond the activity of the primary space level, the Uversa physicists have observed still greater energy activities. These are preliminary to the physical development of the secondary space level.

INFORMATION RELATIVE TO PHYSICAL CREATIONS:

MASS MAGNITUDES

Page 129, paragraph 9: Havona plus its dark gravity bodies is more massive than all seven superuniverses. This is due to the enormous mass of these encircling dark gravity bodies.

Page 132, paragraph 2: Around 95% of the present gravity action of the Paradise Isle is occupied with the control of physical systems outside of the Grand Universe.

Deduction 1: The figure of 95% is not reliable in comparing the physical size of the outer space level with the physical size of the seven superuniverses due to the disproportionate concentration of mass in the dark gravity bodies encircling Havona. Could these dark gravity bodies be eliminated from the calculations, then the figure of 95% would be increased.

Deduction 2: The mass of the Grand Universe is much more of a finished creation than are the newly organizing physical systems of outer space. The passing of time will further increase the figure of 95%.

Page 354, paragraph 5: There are at least 70 thousand physical aggregations in outer space, and each one is larger than a superuniverse.

Page 130, paragraph 6: Someday our astronomers will see no less than 75 million new galaxies in the remote stretches of outer space.

Question: Do the two statements first above refer to the same masses, or do they refer to different physical systems? We do not know. It is possible that the 375 million galaxies could be grouped into 70 thousand aggregations.

Assumption: This thesis will assume that the 70 thousand aggregations are situated in the primary space level and that the 375 million galaxies are in the more remote space regions.

SECTION 1

MAGNITUDE OF THE GRAND UNIVERSE

It appears that the transverse horizontal diameter of the superuniverse space level is on the order of one half million light years. If we wanted to determine the radius of the Grand Universe, we should increase that figure by an amount equal to the radius of Havona.

The radius of Havona plus the transverse diameter of a superuniverse should equal the radius of the Grand Universe. The distance from the center of all things to the periphery of the superuniverses.

Now there are two problems that seriously hamper our calculations at this point:

A. If we attempt to go all the way in to the center of all things, we shall be going inside the inner margins of space itself The Isle of Paradise is at the center of all things. And Paradise is not in space.

B. The Papers give no information whatsoever concerning the size of the Central Universe.

What would happen if we chose to ignore Havona in these calculations? How does the space area of Havona compare with that of a superuniverse? Say, Orvonton.

We know that Havona contains one billion worlds. And that Orvonton will eventually contain one thousand billion inhabited worlds. And this takes no account of the myriads of uninhabited space bodies, suns, dark islands, cold and airless satellites, and soon.

And then, the Havona worlds follow each other in linear procession. In seven circuits. Such a systematic and non-collisional processional could be packed rather compactly in space, as compared with the more ample room required in Orvonton to accommodate the sometimes wild gyrations of the disintegrating nebula.

Orvonton must be much more than one thousand times the size, or space volume, of Havona. But even if it were just one thousand times the size of Havona, then the radius of Havona would be only one tenth of one per cent of the transverse diameter of Orvonton.

We submit that it is within reason to ignore Havona in calculating the radius of the Grand Universe. But even if we are wrong in doing this, even if Havona is very much larger in space area than we have estimated, we will shortly see that any significant error factor will be insignificant in view of the extraordinary magnitudes that we will shortly encounter.

This calculation elects to assume that the diameter of the Grand Universe is on the order of one million light years. And that its radius is around one half million light years.

Since we are going to encounter much larger numbers than these, it will prove convenient to start right now to symbolize these distances. Let us assign a symbolic scale value of two inches to the diameter, and one inch to the radius, of the Grand Universe.

Although this volume of space is not a sphere, we may choose to think of it as a sphere to facilitate concept. We are now thinking of a sphere with a diameter of two inches--an undersized tennis ball.

I suppose we really should have assigned a scale value of one inch to the diameter of Havona. This would mean that the Grand Universe would be scaled at three inches instead of two. And its diameter would be an inch and a half instead of one inch.

SECTION 2

MAGNITUDE OF THE PRIMARY SPACE LEVEL

Does this bore you?

Audience: Oh, no! I should say not.

In these calculations, we elect to ignore the semi-quiet zone that separates the Grand Universe from the primary space level. If the transverse radius of the Grand Universe is 500 thousand light years, and that of the primary space level is 50 million light years, then we have a relationship of one to 100 on a linear basis.

In other words. If we symbolize the radius of the Grand Universe by assigning to it the value of one inch, then on the same scale, we must go out 100 inches to symbolize the transverse diameter of the first outer space level. This is roughly the relationship of one inch to 8 feet.

The cubicrelationship is even more striking. We have visually scaled the volume of the Grand Universe as compared to an undersized tennis ball, a sphere with a diameter of 2 inches.

The radius of the Grand Universe plus the primary space level would scale at 101 inches. One hundred inches plus an inch. The diameter of this volume of space would be twice the radius, 202 inches. This is approximately 16 feet.

We may now visualize our tennis ball suspended in the middle of a fair-sized room, a room roughly measuring 16 feet by 16 feet, and having a ceiling 16 feet high. This is like visualizing the tennis ball floating in the center of an old-fashioned, high-ceilinged living room. A room 16 feet square will hold quite a number of people. How many tennis balls will it hold?

Audience: I don't know.

We can be rather sure at this point that the primary space level is very much larger than the Grand Universe (the seven superuniverses plus Havona). There are 10 Master Architects operating in the Grand Universe: 3 in Havona and 7 in the superuniverses. There are 70 Architectsfunctioning in the primary space level. But their scopeof function must be vastly greater than the space range of the function of the Grand Universe Architects.

The mass magnitudes in outer space will support these estimates. Here are 70 thousand aggregations of matter, and each is already larger than a superuniverse. And these domains are just getting startedfrom a physical standpoint. 95% of Paradise gravity is already occupied with the control of these and other outer space physical systems. And as these creations continue to grow in size, it would appear inevitable that more than 99% may be required to exercise physical control.

There are 375 million galaxies in the remote regions of outer space. We're not sure that this refers to the 70 thousand aggregations of matter noted above. It may include these 70 thousand physical systems and others that lie beyond the primary space level.

MAGNITUDE OF THE SECONDARY SPACE LEVEL

Attempting to calculate the magnitude of the second outer space level, we encounter an unknown factor. We've established a ratio of one to 100 in comparing the radius of the Grand Universe to the transverse diameter of the primary space level.

The Papers give us no dimensions concerning the secondary space level. They merely say that still greater energy activities are going on around 50 million light years beyond the first outer space level. This lack of information is going to force us to make some assumptions.

We know that the space levels increase in size as we proceed outward. But what is the rateof increase? Is it a constant rate? Or is it an accelerating rate of increase?

Audience: I'd say accelerating.

We elect to choose the more conservative speculation. We elect to assumethat the rate of increase is a constant one.

I agree with you. Clyde.

Audience: Thank you.

But I have nothing to hang my hat on.

Audience: There's nothing (can't understand tape) .

What's the rateof acceleration? This is bad enough-

Audience: Laughter. (Everyone talking at once).

If the rate of increase is constant, then we can set down a double ratio: the ratio of the radius of the Grand Universe to the transverse diameter of the primary space level, and of the latter to the transverse diameter of the secondary space level.

This ratio is: I is to 100 as 100 is to 10.000.

In terms of our scale inches, we can symbolize this as follows: if the Grand Universe extends out from the center a distance of one inch, and if the primary space level extends on out 100 inches, then the secondary space level goes on out another 10 thousand inches. This is the approximate relationship of one inch to 8 feet, and of 8 feet to 800 feet

If the transverse diameter of the second outer space level is 800 feet, and the radius of the total universe from the center to the periphery of the second space level would be symbolized by 800 feet plus 8 feet and an inch.

If we choose to ignore the 2 smaller distances, we may say that the diameter of the total universe considered thus far is on the order of twice 800 feet, or 16 hundred feet

To what object of familiar size may we compare this distance of 16 hundred feet? Well, it is like a rather long city block. Try to visualize such a block. It contains 16 one hundred foot lots on each side. Quite comfortable sites for homes. Now try to visualize the cube of this 16 hundred foot city block. Remember that it's a rather long block. Now suspend the old-fashioned living room at the center of the cubic block. This is a 16 foot cube suspended in the middle of a 16 hundred foot cube. Now float the tennis ball in the middle of the living room. We are visualizing the space relationships of the secondary space level-the city block--to the primary space level--the living room--and to the Grand Universe--the tennis ball.

SECTION 4

MAGNITUDE OF THE TERTIARY SPACE LEVEL

If we supply the fourth member of our 100 to one expanding space ratio, we have in terms of scale inches the following: one inch is to 8 feet as 8 feet are to 800 feet and as 800 feet are to 80 thousand feet

Suppose we make the last number a little more manageable by converting it to miles. We can keep this number conveniently even by dividing by 5000 feet, instead of by 5280 feet. And this will give us a distance of 16 miles.

This means that the transverse diameter of the tertiary space level is symbolized by a distance of 16 miles. If this is the case, then the diameter of the total universe that we have considered to this point is twice 16 miles, or 32 miles.

How can we visualize a 32 mile cube? Well. you might try to think of a rather large city that has a surface area measuring 32 miles by 32 miles, and then try to project this surface 32 miles high.

This cubic city is to the 16 hundred foot city block as the tertiary space level is to the secondary. And inside the city block, we still have the living room--the primary space level--and inside the living room, we still have the tennis ball--the grand universe.

SECTION 5

MAGNITUDE OF THE QUARTERN SPACE LEVEL

We've now come to the estimation of the size of the outermost level of the Master Universe. And again we may apply the relationship of one to 100 and continue the ratio to the fourth comparison. One inch is to 8 feet, as 8 feet are to 800 feet, as 800 feet are to 16 miles, and as 16 miles are to 16 hundred miles.

If, in terms of our scale inches, the transverse diameter of the fourth outer space level is 16 hundred miles, and if we entirely ignore the diameters of the smaller and inner space levels, then we may say that the total diameter of the whole Master Universe must be on the order of twice 16 hundred miles, or 32 hundred miles.

Just for comparison, let's consider what we've ignored.

Audience: San Francisco, or something like that.

You're not considering the diameters of the inner and smaller space levels. If we add one inch to eight feet, we have a distance of 8 feet, one inch. Then add 8 hundred feet, and we have 8 hundred 8 feet and one inch. This is something less than one fifth of a mile.

Then we add 16 miles, and we have 16 and one fifth miles. To get the total diameter, we double the number and come up with something less than 33 miles. This is a trifle more than one per cent of 3 thousand 2 hundred miles.

Audience: We've thrown away--

We've thrown away about one per cent in our calculation just to keep it even. How can we best visualize the space volume that has a diameter of 32 hundred miles? The space body that most nearly approaches this size is the earth's moon. The moon has a diameter of around 21 hundred miles, and we're trying to visualize a sphere that has a diameter of 32 hundred miles.

When we think of our 32 mile cubic city in the center of the moon, we are trying to feel the relationship of the tertiary space level to the quartern space level.

SECTION 6

A SUMMARY OF SPACE MAGNITUDES

Let us first recapitulate our original ratio in which we computed the transverse diameters of the space levels. The ratio is: one to 100 to 10 thousand to one million to 100 million. The scale inches are: one inch to 8 feet to 8 hundred feet to 16 miles to 16 hundred miles.

These symbolize the Grand Universe and the primary, secondary, tertiary, and quartern space levels. When we recapitulate on a volume basis, we must double the numbers given above to arrive at the diameters of the volumes concerned. We can recapitulate our volume relationship as follows:

        The Grand Universe, an undersized tennis ball.

        The Primary Space Level. the 16 foot living room.

        The Secondary Space Level, the 16 hundred foot city block

        The Tertiary Space Level, the 32 mile city.

        The Quartern Space Level, the 3 thousand 2 hundred mile satellite--a larger moon.

Turn it off, Berk

Break in tape.

I can't go beyond the first space level on man. No data.

Audience: Yes, I was wondering about the importance of trying (can't understand tape).

This is:

Appendix 17:

TIME MAGNITUDES OF THE MASTER UNIVERSE

The Papers have less to say about time magnitudes than space magnitudes of the Master Universe. But enough data are given to make possible some speculative calculations.

We can work out the age of an old Uversa native, then the age of Orvonton, then the time span of the second universe age. After that, we can apply space magnitudes from Appendix 16 to time magnitudes and make something better than a wild guess as to time magnitudes of the post-Supreme ages of the universes of outer space.

SECTION 1

CALCULATION OF THE AGE OF A VERY OLD NATIVE OF UVERSA

Suppose we calculate the age of an abandonter, a very old native of Uversa. We could calculate his age from the following data in the Papers:

Page 653, paragraph 8: 400 billion years ago, the Andronover nebulae entered upon a certain stage in its development.

Page 654, paragraph 1: About a million years later than 400 billion years ago, Michael selected this nebulae as his local universe.

Deduction: We may use 400 billion years ago as the approximatetime of Michael's arrival in what was to become his local universe.

Page 392, paragraphs 1-3: When the Vorondadeks had been created, then the Lanonandeks were created, and exactly 12 million were brought into being.

Deduction: The Lanonandeks were created after 400 billion years ago, and they were all created at the same time.

Page 654. paragraph 3: 200 billion years ago, Andronover entered upon another stage of its physical evolution. The oldest inhabited worlds in the local universe date from these times.

Deduction: Lanonandeks were created before 200 billion years ago. They function as System Sovereigns and as Planetary Princes, and they would have to be functional before there could be any inhabited worlds.

Page 618. paragraph 3: Time is relative. Take the case of Lucifer. Three days of his long life would be like 300 thousand years of human life on Urantia. But three days to Lucifer would be like 2 and one half seconds in terms of life on Uversa.

Deduction: Three days in the life of Lucifer is proportional to 2 and one half seconds in the life of a very old native of Uversa, our hypothetical abandonter.

You know, they give us just enough. Anyone of these factors are missing, we'd be dead.

We may now begin our calculation of the age of a very old native of Uversa by determining the ratio of 2 and one half seconds to 3 days.

There are 36 hundred seconds in an hour, and 72 hours in 3 days. If we multiply 36 hundred by 72, the product is 259 thousand 200. This is the number of seconds in 3 days.

If we divide 2 and one half into 259 thousand 200, the quotient is 103 thousand 680. We can now establish a ratio of one to 103,680 as indicative of the relationship of the life span of a very old native of Nebadon to a very old native of Uversa.

Now just how old is Lucifer? Or any Lanonandek, for that matter. We know that all Lanonandeks were created at the same time, and that that 5th time falls between two known dates: after 400 billion years ago and before 200 billion years ago. We elect to assume that the age of the Nebadon Lanonandeks dates from a time midway between these two dates. We assume that our Lanonandeks were all created 300 billion years ago.

We are now in a position to complete our ratio. One is to 103,680 as 300 billion years is to the age of a very old native of Uversa.

If we multiply 300 billion years by the factor 103,680 the product is 31 million 104 thousand billions of years.

Audience: (Can't understand tape).

Let us round this number off to an even 30 million billions of years. This is the age of our hypothetical Uversa abandonter. We can otherwise express this number as 30 thousand trillions of years. It is a number equal to 30 times 10 to the 15th power.

The physical age of Andronover, a component nebulae of our local universe, is just under a trillion years. (page 651, paragraph 5). We can accordingly state that our Uversa abandonter is around 30 thousand times as old as Andronover.

SECTION 2

AN ESTIMATE OF THE AGE OF THE SUPERUNIVERSE OF ORVONTON

Audience: (Can't understand tape)

Oh, this has been a ball.

Audience: Laughter.

Just as the local universe of Nebadon is older than even its older natives, such as the Lanonandeks, so must the superuniverse of Orvonton be much older than our hypothetical Uversa abandonter. The question is, how much older?

Well, again, we can reason by analogy. If we take the age of Andronover as around one trillion years, then we can state that the first 60% of this time span had only to do with physical development. The administration of the local universe did not begin until Michael arrived, some 400 billion years ago.

Suppose we date the beginning of Nebadon's history with Michael's arrival. Then we can say that Nebadon is around 100 billion years older than Lucifer. This means a third again as old.

We've computed the age of our Uversa abandonter as 30 thousand trillions of years. If Orvonton is a third again as old, then we should add another 10 thousand trillions of years to the age of the abandonter to estimate the age of Orvonton.

This gives us a time span of 40 thousand trillions of years for the estimated age of our superuniverse.

SECTION 3

THE TIME SPAN OF THE SECOND UNIVERSE AGE

If Orvonton is already on the order of 40 thousand trillions of years old, then what is the total time span of the second universe age from the creation of the Ancients of Days to the settling of the time-space creations in Light and Life? The Papers throw some light on this question. Consider the following:

. Percentage of inhabited worlds to projected inhabited worlds.
We know that life is still being planted on the worlds of time and space. The superuniverses are still growing.

Page 166, paragraph 9: The plan of the superuniverses provides for approximately 7 trillion inhabited worlds.

Page 182, paragraph 8: The number of Urantia is 5 trillion, 342 billion, 482 million, 337 thousand, 666.

If we divide the registry number of Urantia by 7 trillion, we can determine what percentage of the projected inhabited worlds actually were inhabited by human beings as of a million years ago when Urantia was registered. This calculation gives a figure of just over 76%.

In other words, in terms of the evolution of human life on the inhabited worlds, the seven superuniverses are 76% started.

. Percentage of local universes that have been organized:

Page 167, paragraph 1-5: The creative plan provides for 7 hundred thousand local universes.

Page 166, paragraph 1: All projected local universes have not been organized.

(Start of Side B).

Page 366, paragraph 2: The number of our Creator Son is 611 thousand, 121.

Page 370, paragraph 8: Our Union of Days is numbered 611 thousand, 121.

Page 654, paragraph 3-4: 200 billion years ago Nebadon was registered on Uversa as a universe of habitation.

We deduce: That Creator Sons and Unions of Days are assigned in serial order to the local universe space sites. If this the case, then the local universe of Nebadon is the 611,121st local universe to be organized in the seven superuniverses.

Since there are just 700 thousand projected local universes, we can compute the percentage of local universes that have been organized by dividing Michael's number by 700 thousand. By this calculation, we find that just over 87% of the projected local creations had been organized at the time Nebadon was recognized as an inhabited creation.

This was 200 billion years ago, and in view of the size of the numbers we have already encountered, we may cheerfully ignore a small number like 200 billion.

. A variance in the percentage of the local universes in commission.

We've assumed that Creator Sons are assigned in serial order. This may or may not be the actual case. Consider the following:

Page 266, paragraph 1: Circuit Supervisors are not rotated in service. The Circuit Supervisor stationed on Salvington is number 572 thousand 842. This number, 572,842, would appear to belong to a series culminating in the total number of projected local universes, 700 thousand.

If we divide the smaller by the larger number, we can again compute the percentage of local universes that have been commissioned. By this division, we arrive at a figure that is just under 82%. This is 5% less than the calculation based on Michael's number. Here again, we have no assurance that tertiary circuit supervisors are assigned in serial order.

. Percentage variances between inhabited worlds and local universes.

By far the greatest difference thus encountered is the difference between the percentage of inhabited worlds--76%--and the two percentages related to local universes--87% and 82%. This difference must be due to the presence of many younger universes, such as Nebadon. We know that:

Page 166, paragraph 5: A local universe is designed to have about 10 million inhabitable planets.

Page 359, paragraph 6: Nebadon had 3 million, 840 thousand, 101 inhabited worlds at the time of the last registry.

On this basis, Nebadon is a little more than 38% started, so far as concerns the appearance of human life on the worlds of time and space. And even withina local universe, the local systems may vary greatly in the number of inhabited worlds. Consider the following:

Page 166, paragraph 3: A system is designed to embrace about one thousand inhabited or inhabitable worlds. In the younger systems, comparatively few of these worlds will actually be inhabited.

Page 359, paragraph 7: Satania has 619 inhabited worlds.

From this we may deduce that the local system of Satania is nearly 62% started in terms of inhabited worlds. This compares with 38% for the entire local universe of Nebadon. Some of the Nebadon systems are not nearly so far along as is the system of Satania.

. Other indices of Orvonton growth.

There are two more citations that will help us in estimating the percentage of attained growth in Orvonton.

Page 265, paragraph 9: On Uversa, there are 84 thousand 691 Secondary Circuit Supervisors.

Page 267, paragraph 6: Census Director number 81 thousand 412 is stationed on Salvington.

Both of these numbers would appear to belong to a superuniverse series that culminates in 100 thousand. They respectively suggest that Orvonton is 85% or 81 % completed so far as the assignment of these beings is concerned.

. A comparison of percentages.

We are now in position to make a comparison of all the percentages that have been computed.

. 76% of a projected 7 trillion inhabitable worlds have developed human life.

. 81 % of a projected 100 thousand Census Directors of Orvonton have been assigned.

. 82% of a projected 700 thousand Tertiary Circuit Supervisors have been assigned.

. 85% of a projected 100 thousand Secondary Circuit Supervisors are on Uversa.

* 87% of a projected 700 thousand assignable Creator Sons have been commissioned.

While there is a variance in these numbers, it is still very interesting to note that they are all of the same general magnitude, running from a low of 76% to a high of 87%.

Now we've seen that the percentage relating to inhabited worlds can be misleading. We have 76% for the seven superuniverses, but only 38% for our local universe. We can also raise a question as to the figure of 85% relative to the Secondary Supervisors. The Papers state that this number are present on Uversa, but do not state that they are all in function.

Now, as to the 87% figure pertaining to the number of Creator Sons that have been commissioned. It seems most likely that the Michaels are numbered in a serial order of appearance, but we cannot be equally sure that they are commissionedin that same order. If they are not, then the 82% figure relating to tertiary Circuit Supervisors could be a more accurate indicator of the number of local universes in commission.

If this line of reasoning is correct, then we have two percentages--81 % and 82%--that are in very close agreement concerning the likely number of local universes that were organized in the seven superuniverses when Nebadon was recognized as a local creation. For purposes of our calculation, we will adopt the larger of the two numbers, 82%.

. An application of percentages.

Assuming that 82% of all projected local universes have been commissioned, this means that there are about 127 thousand that will be commissioned in the future. Can we then assume that 82% of the second age lies in the past and that about 18% is ahead of us in the future?

We would venture that the figure of 82% is very much too low. The commissioning of a local universe is an eventthat is quite remote from the settlingof that local universe in Light and Life. Perhaps the figure of 76% for the number of inhabited worlds out of 7 trillion projected would be a better number.

Let us adopt this number. Round it off to an even 75% and say that somewhere near three fourths of the second universe age is a past event and that about one fourth remains for the future.

Audience: I'm glad somebody worked that out for me.

Now, we've computed the age of Orvonton at some 40 thousand trillions of years. If this number represents three fourths of the second age, then we should increaseit by one third to arrive at the total estimated time span of the present universe age. This would mean an increase of 13 thousand trillionsof years. We can even this number off at 10 thousand trillions and add it to the age of Orvonton to arrive at a total of 50 thousand trillions of years. This is our estimate of the total time span of the second age. It is 50 thousand times as long as the age of the Andronover nebulae.

SECTION 4

PROPORTIONAL TIME MAGNITUDES OF THE OUTER SPACE AGES

Our reasoning to this point has established a possibletime span of the second age as 50 thousand trillions of years. How is this number related to the time spansof the post-Supreme ages of the outer space levels?

We would advance the idea that the second age is of comparative short durationwhen compared with the possible length of the outer space ages. This thinking is based on the calculations that were made in connection with estimating the space magnitudes of the Master Universe. (See Appendix 16, Section 6, "A Summary of Space Magnitudes.")

In this calculation, we determined a ratio of size that worked out as one to 100. In other words, as we move out from the Grand Universe, each space level is about 100 times the size of the preceding one. Starting with the Grand Universe as having a value of one, we can tabulate the relative magnitudes of the space levels as follows:

      The Grand Universe: one

      The primary space level: 100

      Secondary space level: 10 thousand

Tertiary space level: one million
. Quartan space level: 100 million

At this point, we need to use exponents to express such very large numbers. It will be recalled that 10 to the 3rd power is 10 multiplied by itself 3 times. This equals a thousand. Ten to the 6th power is 10 multiplied by itself 6 times. This equals one million. Ten to the 9th power is one billion. Ten to the 12th power is one trillion. And 10 to the 15th power is one quadrillion.

We can now express the time spans of the successive universe ages as:

. The first age, the age of Havona: No time span; it is eternal.

. The second age, the present age: 50 times 10 to the 15th power.

. The third age, the primary space level: 50 times 10 to the 17th power.

. The fourth age, the secondary space level: 50 times 10 to the 19th power.

. The fifth age, the tertiary space level: 50 times 10 to the 21st power.

. The sixth age, the quartan space level: 50 times 10 to the 23rd power.

If we wrote the last number up, it would be 50 followed by 22 zeroes. This number's too awkward to handle. It would be like dealing with astronomical distances in terms of miles instead of light years. What we need is the time equivalent of the space measurement of a light year.

Why not devise one? The longest time span dealt with in the Papers is the age of Andronover, just a little less than a trillion years. Suppose we adopt this as our basic time unit and give it the name, "Andronover time unit. "

We could abbreviate it as, "ATU." Now we can deal with long time spans more conveniently.

   The second universe age equals 50 thousand atu's.

   The third universe age equals 5 million atu's.

   The fourth universe age equals 500 million atu's.

The fifth universe age equals 50 billion atu's.
. The sixth universe age equals 5 trillion atu's.

It appears likely that the full development of the outer space levels is going to require a very long time.

Audience: Laughter.

But they are quite large.

Audience: More laughter. Oh, boy.

Turn it off.

Audience: What was the time (can't understand tape), Bill?

"Time magnitudes of the Master Universe."

Break in tape.

Andronover. Andronover is the longest time span the Papers mention. A trillion years.

This is Section 3 from Appendix 20, "The Adjustment of Time Creatures to Eternity."

APPENDIX 20 SECTION 3

THE ADJUSTMENT OF TIME CREATURES TO ETERNITY

Human beings begin to adjust to eternity right here on Urantia. We are time creatures. No doubt about that. But as we begin to mature, we begin our long adventure of escape from imprisonment from within the evanescent values of the present moment. (page 1295, Section 1).

Hardly anything is more permanent--or more perishable--than the present. As we progress in experience, and as we also grow in maturity--which is optional--then we begin to draw more and more deeply on lengthening past experiences as a foundation for decision in the present.

Simultaneously, we are looking farther and farther ahead into the future to calculate the effects of the decisions made in the present. This is the beginning of the association of the past and the future with the present, and as we grow older, we are able to grasp the meaning of longer time spans in the making of plans.

If this is true in mortal experience, how much more true will it be of survival experience? How will we think when we can draw upon a million years of past experience? When we have lived a trillion years, we will be about as old as the Andronover nebulae. How will we plan then? By the end of the sixth age, at the beginning of the post-Ultimate age, we have calculated that we will be 5 trillion timesas old as Andronover. How will we plan then?

This may all be doubled in terms of personal experience. Among other things, fusion with an Adjuster adds past-eternity experience and memory. (page 1237, paragraph 4).

Suppose we are able to absorb this endowment insofar as we have developed capacity. In other words, when we have lived a trillion years, then we can grasp another trillion years of past-eternity experience and memory from the Adjuster.

This adds up to two trillion years of past memory. This also means that we ought to be able to visualize aheadfor an equal time span--another two trillion years.

We have lived only one trillion years, but we have acquired a four trillion year time base with which to evaluate the present in terms of the past-future.

Now, if our calculations about universe ages are correct, then at the beginning of the post-Ultimate age, we should be around 5 trillion trillionyears old.

Audience: Laughter.

And we will be able to think, understand, and plan in terms of a time span that is four times as long.

If our experiential penetration of time is at four times the rate of the passage of time, then we are bound to make progress in the quantitative time comprehension of eternity.

The qualitative feeling for eternity probably became a part of the ascender's consciousness at the time of transit from the inner Havona circuit to Paradise. (page 297, paragraph 4; page 135, paragraph 4).

Audience: Bill, we sure will be wrinkled when we get there, aren't we?

Yeah.

Audience: Laughter. (Can't understand tape).

Audience: Well, that's putting it gently, I'm giving mine up.

Audience: (Everyone talking at once).

Audience: Well, Bill, the most inspiring thing of all is this last thing. I was beginning to feel as though I hadn't arrived yet, even. When you begin to compare what we have in experiences--

You're going to pick up speed.

Audience: Oh, yes.

And if you're moving four times--if comprehension is drawing at four times the rate of the passage of time, then you're going to be able to cope with some pretty long time spans. When, at the end of the Master Universe, we are going to be able to think and feel and understand a time span four times the age of the Master Universe, we have made a small dent in eternity itself, I think.

Audience: You know, Bill, that word "comprehension" (can't understand tape) because that's the key to Paradise.

Yes.

Audience: Well, so far in this--

Audience: Think we'd better break. (Everyone talking at once).

Audience: --what Mrs. Wilson has read to me, has been rather discouraging because of the thought of all of the hard work ahead.

This is true, too.

Audience: But this, with all the experiences you have to help you, you're really propelled into something.

Yes, you are. We grow.

Audience: We get help, too.

We measure up to the job.

Audience: I think the hardest part of our ascension to Paradise is right on this earth.

Audience: I'll buy that.

Audience: I really do.

It may be on the mansion worlds.

Audience: You think it'll be harder on the mansion worlds? (Everyone talking at once).

Let me draw an analogy.

Audience: (Everyone talking at once). You'll have more to do with. (Can't understand tape).

Let me draw an analogy.

Audience: (Everyone talking at once). (Can't understand tape).

Look. Every baby wets the bed. We all did. And, presumably, we were normal and somewhere--I've forgotten how old it is. Is it one year, two years? We get over this.

Audience: About 16 months.

16 months. Fine. But there are those who have trouble with this later on in life. And let's say we have Joe. Joe goes to college. And, by George, right in the fraternity house, Joe wets the bed.

Audience: Laughter.

And you can imagine what his fraternity brothers are going to do about this.

Audience: Yes.

Many of this, I fear, will arrive on the mansion worlds troubled with spiritual enuresis.

Audience: Laughter. Beautifully put.

And we are going to do mammalian thingsup there that are going to be just mortifying. And I think some of our greatest suffering will be the stimulus that will help us finally outgrow "the mark of the beast" if you please.

There is where I think we will really sufferon the mansion worlds, for the same reason that a kid who wets the bed in the fraternity house is going to suffer in college. We're carrying over habits that are not in proportion. To that extent, I think the mansion worlds are like purgatory. But the suffering is internal. It's not external.

Audience: (Can't understand tape).

We'll know shame. Think how you're going to feel when maybe for the last time in your ascendant career, on the third mansion world, you really lose your temper and blow your stack. And once again prove that "anger is like a stone hurled into an hornet's nest." And you're dealt with in kindness, and you shrink almost out of sight, you know.

Audience: Laughter. (Can't understand tape).

Yes. It may take that to eradicate temper from a human being. I'm sure they're not going to eliminate pain from our experience-as long as it has any evolutionary value. Just like the Papers say, keep the profit motive until you have developed the service motive.

Audience: Mabel's going to have a broken leg up there if she (can't understand tape) another car at 80 miles an hour.

Audience: (Everyone talking at once) (can't understand tape).

I think until we get up to about the third mansion world--it takes us about that long to outgrow the whiplash of the stimulus. Somewhere in through the middle mansion worlds, they say, we begin to develop genuine enthusiasmfor the Paradise ascension. We've outgrown the old whiplash. It's no longer needed, so it isn't used.

But mostly, I think, we afflict it on ourselves. We know shame. When we exhibit procrastination, equivocation, et cetera, up there, as our sense of values grows, we're going to get more and more ashamed of those things that we shrug off down here. And there are a lot of traits that we have down here that are notout of proportion to this world. Just as a little baby is expectedto wet the bed. And if he goes a month dry, and in the 17th month does it again, this is no great tragedy--this may be the last time that he'll do it.

Audience: Henry Drumment says that love will overcome everything, and particularly, I particularly like this--and I know that Bill has read this, too--remarks on overcoming temper.

Yes, this is true.

Audience: It appealed to me perhaps because I have, in the past, had such a terrible temper.

Audience: (Can't understand tape).

Audience: Well, I will say "anger" then, maybe (can't understand tape).

I think, Wilma, that what happens up there is anger transmutes into something positive and good. You see a situation that used to make you mad, and now it just stimulates you to be helpful. The same surgeis there, but it's no longer negative.

Audience: It's positive.

It's become positive.

Audience: Well, we have had that happen. You do have that happen to yourself. Or getting anger, really strengthening you to reach an objective.

Yes. And I've also made an ass out of myself when I was mad, too.

Audience: Oh, we won't talk about that. (Everyone talking at once) (can't understand tape).

Audience: Bill?

What?

Audience: Foot in mouth disease.

Oh, yes, foot in mouth disease, definitely.

Audience: Laughter.

Foot in pie.

Audience: There's one thing I wanted to (can't understand tape). You said that hardly anything is more permanent or perishable than what did you say?

Time. Than the present moment.

Audience: (Everyone talking at once).

It's always with you and yet it's gone, in an instant.

Audience: (Everyone talking at once).

I don't know. I was just writing it, and that's the way it occurred to me, it's permanent, and yet it's perishable.

Audience: (Can't understand tape).

But as you relate the present moment to the past-future, the greater the relationship, the greater the meaning and the value of the present moment. The less the relationship, the more hopelessly trivialthe present moment becomes. How much purposeis there in the present?

As you increase the content of purpose in the present moment, the present moment then has real significance. Because you're drawing on the past, you're projecting into the future--this is the act of a mature person in contrast to a child who happily lives in the present. As a child should. But this is not for adults. Except in our play life. In our play life, what do we do?

Audience: I don't know.

We disconnect the past-present and have a good time. This is very refreshing to do. They encourage it. But this is not the way you live your whole life. Then you're a "playboy."

Audience: Well, Bill, calculating on the first mansion world, I still don't believe it's going to be as rough as it is down here, and I'll tell you why. Down here, we have before us, every moment, the proposition of making a living--a home, clothing, food, and so forth.

Yes. You're talking my language, woman.

Audience: (can't understand tape) we will not have that on the mansion world.

Educating children.

Audience: On (can't understand tape) world, yes, but (can't understand tape).

Tuition is not tax deductible.

Audience: On the mansion worlds we will have a job to do. We will have a job to do and our spiritual life. Now, we have that same thing here, but I think our job up there will be channeled.

I think this, too, Wilma. Up there, we can depend on the advice we get.

Audience: Yes.

Down here, sometimes it's a gamble.

Audience: Not sometimes. It's mostly a gamble.

But, gee whiz. How old are some of these seraphim? Some of them have been kicking around this universe for a long time. You might have a personal guardian who's a billion years old. This is a pretty wise hand. You talk to this seraphim--and you will talk to her--you talk to her, and she says, "Well, you know, I wouldn't do that if I were you." And so you go do it, and you're burned, and you come back, and the next time she says, "Well, now, I would advise against that. "

Audience: And you listen. (Everyone talking at once). You better.

Then you probably listen this time. You probably listen. And you say, "Why?" And she says, "I can't quite explain it to you. You haven't learned another language yet, and you don't have any words in English."

Audience: You learn it through the pain of experience.

Sure you do.

Audience: (Everyone talking at once--can't understand tape).

Audience: You know, they tell us we have groups there from down here.

Yes.

Audience: And eventually, we will all have a personal (can't understand tape).

By the time you get through the mansion worlds, you will.

Audience: Well, does this group seraphim transfer the knowledge that they have about us to someone else--I mean, to another seraphim?

I don't know. I really don't know.

Audience: Because they talk about your lifetime trends-

I have no opinion on that.

Audience: Well. I thought we lost our seraphim when we fused with our Thought Adjuster.

No, they go right on through with us.

Audience: They might even go to Paradise.

All the way at least to Uversa.

Audience: I wondered--(Everyone talking at once-can't understand tape )--I want to ask one question, before we get off-go ahead.

Can I read you a little bit more about time? I find this concept helpful to me. This is another--

Audience: It's not helpful to me.

This is Section 4 in Appendix 20.

APPENDIX 20 SECTION 4

EPOCHS IN THE POST-ULTIMATE AGE

This is the final age, the unending age. As we move in concept farther and farther' from here and now, and deeper and deeper into the distant future, we are increasingly forced to speculate by the use of analogy.

We would ask the question, "What is it going to be like to live in the post-Ultimate age?" Something that has no ending. Is the final age a straightaway drive into the utter vastness of unending eternity? We think not. Let us make a comparison of the seventh age with the epochs in the history of an inhabited world.

The history of an inhabited world is divided into seven epochs. Pre-planetary Prince. post-planetary Prince, post-Adamic, post-Magisterial Son, post-Bestowal Son, post-Teacher Son, and the era of Light and Life.

Each of the first six epochs has an ending. But the seventh has none that is definite. Does this mean that the era of Light and Life just goes on and on and on? No. it does not.

The era of Light and Life itself is divided into seven stages of progressive growth. (page 621. paragraph 5-11).

Each of these stages from the first stage to the sixth stage has a definite endingin time. The seventh stageof Light and Life does not.

We have the belief that the Post-Ultimate age will also be divided into stages. Seven of them. And that each one of the first six will have a definite endthat will be represented by the attainment of a definiteand satisfyinggoal. The seventh and final stage alone will be without an end.

But what about the seventh stage of Light and Life on some perfected worlds? Could it not be further divided into sub-stages? (Can't understand tape). And each of the first six could set an attainable goal and could have a definite end. Only the last sub-stage would be endless. The same line of reasoning could also apply to the seventh stage of the post-Ultimate age.

This process can go on and on, and in this manner endless progress can be punctuated by attainable goals which become revealed as preliminary subdivisions of a final goal that is not factually attainable. I take comfort from that. I think that eternity itself will be marked out--

Audience: By goals.

By goals. And when you enter the seventh, you will discover-

Audience: (Can't understand tape).

You've entered the first.

Audience: Or something new. There's another seven.

Right. But now. I think this. I have a distinct belief that the first stage of the final age is very, verymuch longer than the entire age of the Master Universe. Now I think we're dealing with a different orderof magnitude. These are reallybig.

Audience: (can't understand tape).

Right. In the same sense I've conceived of the cosmos infinite. When the Father and Son trinitize the Spirit, Havona flashed into being. I think when the Supreme and the Ultimate trinitize God the Absolute, the innermost zoneof the cosmos infinite will flash into being. Because this Supreme and this Ultimate are also almighty and omnipotent. And they will repercuss in the physicallevel as well as the spiritual.

And I think the innermost zone of the cosmos infinite isto the Master Universe. as the Master Universe isto the Grand Universe.

Now. I would project a series of tennis ball, moon--and here's the big one. This is the beginning. This is the beachhead in infinity. This is (can't understand tape).

Audience: Beg pardon?

This is big.

Audience: Bill-

Audience: Right

Audience: I'm sure you (can't understand tape).

Or let's say maybe it (can't understand tape) a tennis ball is to the moon as the moon is to the sun. That might not be a bad-

Audience: As (can't understand tape) to the sun?

Comparison.

Audience: (Can't understand tape).

And that's just the innermost zone. That's where you get started.

Audience: Would the relative perception and memory of a survivor today and the earlier--as compared to the earliest survivor possible--

Yes.

Audience: When entering say. the fourth--the activities that are manifest on the fourth outer space level--be so relatively insignificant that they both are just two brilliant personalities.

We will be contemporaries of Grandfanda.

Audience: You'd be a buddy of Grandfanda.

That's right.

Audience: In fact, you'll (can't understand tape).

You want to know something? I think the natives of the quartan space level will get Havona natives and superuniversers all confused with Paradise citizens. They're the people from the inner universes.

Next: Part 10